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ear's picture
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100 hz tv's and blu-ray

just been watching some blu-ray movies on 50 hz lcd's.Sure we notice a lot of "jumps" on the picture.24p..since I've been watching it on the stores, and its outputing 1080 24p for sure....if the player was set to 1080p but not 24 p, would it make much difference on smothing the image motion?

ear's picture
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

anyone? any ideas?

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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

IMHO most blu-ray are 1080p 24p.


In my situation it was enabling 24p that removed all judder from a blu-ray image.


So if the LCD is Full HD and 24p capable it should not have to do anything with the blu-ray image when it is output at 1080p 24p.


Without 24p enabled and a 24p capable LCD you may run into telecine pulldown judder.
This is when the LCD will be resolving the image at 1080p/50 or 1080p/60 which is not divisible by the orignal 24fps on the blu-ray.


IMHO any picture processing should be turned off as this may have an adverse impact on the image.

Anonymous
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray
digigriffin:

 


IMHO any picture processing should be turned off as this may have an adverse impact on the image.



Not in the case of Philips latest full HD LCD's, which can use interpolation techniques in HDNM to remove other small amounts of inconsistencies in movement that will still be visible with the picture at 1080p 24.


1080p 24 doesn't mean a completely smooth moving picture, it will just remove the judder associated with pulldown.


Without interploation, 1080p24 is still unatural and not pleasing on the eye for me.


Some people prefer it.

ear's picture
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

Same point for me Willie Cocker.I aldo don't like natural 24p very jumpy images for me.If I go For a 50 hz lcd I was trying to find if outputing the player at 60 hz would reduce the jumpy effect.maybe it would be even worse.

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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

Films shot orignally at 24fps can show judder.
This is because of the historically slow frame rate that 24fps is.
However film producers/directors know about this and design the shots to minimise any judder effect that may be captured.
Having said that sometimes the shot from a directors viewpoint is a must and so will have judder without changing how it is shot.


I replaced my HD-Ready plasma for a Full-HD plasma to get rid of the judder that was so apparent on my 720p panel.
So now able to show 1080p 24p I have not seen any judder effect at all to my eyes on my TX-P24V10.


So although 24p is slow by screen refresh rates I do not see this as jumpy at all.
But having said that we all have different eyes and some can pick up picture issues that some of us cannot see.
I am as fussy as it gets with picture, I am firmly in the plasma camp for larger screens, but could this all be down to the LCD technology?

ear's picture
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

tried a lh3000 with philips 7300 Bd player.set it to 1080p only....not much difference from 1080 24p, but I think itïs smother,maybe placebo effect...

Anonymous
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

Can't speak about other TVs but in Sony's 2008/09 brochure,with their brilliant X series of LCDs, they had said with 24P BR been played, and with Cinema mode setting ON, the motion processing is auto switched off. The motion processing is only for sports and not 24P BR viewing....


I viewed a wonderful native langauge Japanese BR -MACHINE GIRL-on a 50hz Sony on 24P, absolutely no jerkyness what so ever.Shows how good even at 50h it can handle motion. 

ear's picture
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

the test I did was with the new batman movie (or maybe the previous one).maybe some movies are shot more jerky than others..

Anonymous
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray
digigriffin:
So now able to show 1080p 24p I have not seen any judder effect at all to my eyes on my TX-P24V10.


On my v10, I've noticed it struggled with a couple of shots (not sure if it was judder, as it was very slight). The first, was the opening panning shot of The Day After Tomorrow where the camera goes over the glaciers and icebergs. The second, was on the opening credits of Watchmen with the Dylan song in the background.


Both discs were blu rays, but I have the day after tomorrow on dvd and hardly noticed this effect on the same tv, bdp etc. Is there something about blu rays that would make this more noticeable than on a dvd?


 

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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray
hmtb: Both discs were blu rays, but I have the day after tomorrow on dvd and hardly noticed this effect on the same tv, bdp etc. Is there something about blu rays that would make this more noticeable than on a dvd?

Yes, DVDs don't carry 1080p/24p pictures.

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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

I may be wrong with all this...


But weren't dvd's encoded at a rate that didn't require the TV to change it?
The fact that blu ray is 24 frames a second, unless the TV can show 24 frames a second at 24p then some telecine pulldown judder may occur?
With dvd's they were already encoded to match the broadcast standard as was HD DVD?


So basicaly blu-ray being 24p relies on us having the kit to handle this where as before it was done professionaly when making the dvd?

ear's picture
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

well we can notice it on crt's also.its the ways movies are shot.on plasma we notice a bit.on lcd 50 hz a little bit more.i've been comparing plasma and lcd side by side.not much difference.well the difference in motion between 50 hz lcds and plasmas.I guess I could get used to it.even on dvd's we can notice some slow pans were movement isnt fluid..

Anonymous
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray
the_lhc:
hmtb: Both discs were blu rays, but I have the day after tomorrow on dvd and hardly noticed this effect on the same tv, bdp etc. Is there something about blu rays that would make this more noticeable than on a dvd?


Yes, DVDs don't carry 1080p/24p pictures.



I am aware of that. I was hoping for an explanation of why this might be, though I think digigriffin addresses this.

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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray

DVD's don't carry 1080p because of capacity issues - and if they did then there would be no need for Blu-ray and it would be an even more difficult sell!

Also, NTSC DVDs run at 24fps.

There may be some confusion over the frame rate and the screen refresh rate, which aren't the same thing.

I used to understand more about this a few years ago, but now I'm quite confused myself ...  Tongue Tied

 

 

Anonymous
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Re: 100 hz tv's and blu-ray
ElectroMan:

DVD's don't carry 1080p because of capacity issues - and if they did then there would be no need for Blu-ray and it would be an even more difficult sell!


Also, NTSC DVDs run at 24fps.


There may be some confusion over the frame rate and the screen refresh rate, which aren't the same thing.


I used to understand more about this a few years ago, but now I'm quite confused myself ...  Tongue Tied



I wasn't clear above. I meant, why might judder issues be more noticeable on a blu ray version of a film than on a dvd version? 

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