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chebby's picture
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'Timing' (amplifiers).

Can anyone explain how 'timing' applies to an amplifier.

I understand that CD players and DACs have clocks and I understand the various issues regarding the rotational accuracy of turntables, but I don't understand how amplifiers can exhibit good (or poor) timing.

Thanks.

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

When I see those words together. I think b*****s. 

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

chebby wrote:

Can anyone explain how 'timing' applies to an amplifier.

I understand that CD players and DACs have clocks and I understand the various issues regarding the rotational accuracy of turntables, but I don't understand how amplifiers can exhibit good (or poor) timing.

Thanks.

 

I think it's more to do with loudspeakers than amps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_time_alignment

 

you know how people like to chuck buzz words around even if they don't actually know what they are on about Wink Biggrin

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

Speed of the electronics reaction when going from zero to high and back, (A poor power supply may not be able to supply enough power, or there may be some residual delay in the amplifier output transistors etc.) which also depends on the amplifiers interaction with the speaker. (It’s not magic and the differences heard can easily be measured)

Home Cinema Receivers are the most difficult to get right due to all the electronics the signal has to go through. (Hence the so called pure direct mode, which while simpler is still way more complex than an amplifier on its own)

Unless money is no object manufactures have to choose what balance to take.

Hope this helps

Bill

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

Timing in relation to hifi is - to me - about the ability for notes to stop and start on, well, time.  So to me it's a function of a loudspeaker/amp combination.  A more powerful amp might be expected to take better control of drivers (which by their nature want to flap about), thus making them stop quicker than a less able amplifier.

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

cheeseboy wrote:

I think it's more to do with loudspeakers than amps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_time_alignment

In this instance I am referring to timing regarding amplifiers.  This Roksan review today spurred the question ...

http://www.whathifi.com/review/kandy-k2-bt

... although I have come across this before.

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

I agree with some of the thoughts above.

I think it's partly to do with transient speed and the ability of the amp to control the speakers (damping factor?).....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

CnoEvil wrote:
.....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

That all sounds very familiar. Wink

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
.....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

That all sounds very familiar. Wink


:shifty: :silenced:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
.....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

That all sounds very familiar. Wink

Blatant plagarism M'lud. :grin:

Loads of second hand expensive kit!

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

Al ears wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
.....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

That all sounds very familiar. Wink

Blatant plagarism M'lud. :grin:

One does try, dear heart.  :grin:

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

plastic penguin wrote:

Al ears wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
.....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

That all sounds very familiar. Wink

Blatant plagarism M'lud. :grin:

One does try, dear heart.  :grin:


.....a Class A effort, if I may say! :twisted:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

This is an odd one.

I understand what is meant by timing and sometimes I am quite sure I can hear differences between amplifiers in this respect. How much of that is real is difficult to determine. Certain amplifiers have a reputation for good timing so when people hear them the expect a certain something, which they then hear.

Rise time, slew rate and global negative feedback are all factors that are said to affect timing and some of arguments seem quite pursuasive. 

 

Time for another DDC 'anecdote', in this case the one about the occasion that I decided amplifier timing did exist.

I was visiting a customer to dem him a new pre-amp. He had an ATC pre driving active ATC floorstanders and I had been raving about some new pre-amp from ARC and how it would be better than the ATC. He took me at my word and invited me round. I plugged in my pre-amp to warm up and had a listen to his system while tha valves in the ARC warmed up and stabilised.

Then we chose a Stevie Earle track with a long solo guitar intro as our first comparison. I have to say it sounded damn good on his system and I was thinking that the clarity, pitch of the guitar was exceptional.I thought it would be a great track for me to learn how to play as everything was just so clear that it would be dead easy and to be honest I was fretting that my new preamp would struggle to do better.

I should not have worried, the new pre-amp just stopped me from picking up an acoustic guitar ever again, not only was the clarity and pitch comparable in every way but now the exquisite timing and touch of a fine player was layed bare, I knew that I could practice for the rest of my life and never come close to that effortless playing, all in the timing you see........ 

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

Al ears wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:
.....so they sound fast, controlled and dynamic, with no muddle or bass overhang.

That all sounds very familiar. Wink

Blatant plagarism M'lud. :grin:


Ah, I now see what you mean.....though in my defence, I hadn't read the review when I wrote it. :doh:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

John Duncan wrote:

Timing in relation to hifi is - to me - about the ability for notes to stop and start on, well, time.  So to me it's a function of a loudspeaker/amp combination.  A more powerful amp might be expected to take better control of drivers (which by their nature want to flap about), thus making them stop quicker than a less able amplifier.

 

i was was going to say that. 

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RE: 'Timing' (amplifiers).

Is it really how it works? When the music stops, then the amp will stop output of current. How will your powerful amplifier STOP the cone movement? If it had been a system with feedback from the speaker: yes, otherwise: no.

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