Had time to do some listening and I recon the base traps have had a very worthwhile effect. Clearly they are only a small element of 'room treatment' but within a lounge environment we are all limited I guess. Most usefully it seems to have improved some base 'holes' evident in one of the two main listening seats. the base is better balanced as well as sounding cleaner and more solid. Very subjective I know but I am quite happy with a small investment maybe £50. I think it has allowed the new MS's to breath more excitement into the system and the base movie effects are very believable now. My next upgrade would have to be a new room!
PS With a flush fitting top and a little light oak trim makes the traps look much neater I recon.
All done. Thanks Chewy recon measurements using ears is up next
Yamaha V2065. MS Mezzo 5.1 Panasonic 42. Sony BD. Garrard 86SB. WD Live TV. SkyHD.
Hardly objective but listening over a day or two I have found the bass is far more controlled now. On one side of the listening position there was a huge bass 'sink' which has now largely disappeared. interestingly too, I have run the Auto EQ again and switching between this setting and 'no eq' is little different. I assume (maybe naively) that there is now less need for equalization since the bass and midrange has been tamed a little by the bass traps. Enough testing for now its time for some listening pleasure.
And finally (maybe) ... I knocked up a panel to place behind the settee, close to the rear wall and I am very pleased with its performance. I made it very light and cost only a few pounds - more as an experiment than anything else. And it is kinda temporary for moments of 'serious' listening. If anyone is intereted I will post pics - basically 4" rockwool held in a light wooden frame with wire bracing.
I really think I have tamed the sound now with CDs sounding much more natural with better separation. Complex tracks have always sounded too crowded and confused until now - I now know why. For less than £50 in total I have really found a sweet sounding system in a small room which deservidly sounded poor for a number of reasons. 10/10 vote for some modest room treatment. best £50 ever.
Cheers - back to the Olympics ....
:clap: very interesting,would love to hear what differance it has all made
Hya GSB. I guess I am keen to encourage others to at least try some room treatment and then diy or pro if it helps. My room / layout is classically bad from an acoustics pov and the room decor needs to be maintained so I wasnt hopeful. With new speakers too my subjective evaluation is difficult. I can only say that my partner and I are for the first time maybe really pleased with the overall sound for music and film. Film benefits from tighter deep base effects and the base 'hole' in one of two seating positions has been significantly reduced. A base boom in a non listening area has disappeared. Staging seems better and effects more natural. Vocals are clearer and better separated from action. Music seems more revealing. Separation of vocals and instruments particularly with complex tracks is much imroved. Clearer and better placed.
How much is new speakers or placebo I dont know but if my partner is impresswd too then I am happy. Have a go! Best £50 quid ever.
Well done on all this :rockout:
and remember the best test of any listening enviroment is your own listening satisfaction
David Shevyn |General Manager | GIK Acoustics Europe
Thanks sheggs. In a different (bachelor) life I would have become your number one customer. I do think WHF should do an article on this to highlight the enormous potential benefits.
PS Listening to Fleetwood Mac now. Every time I listen to my old CDs I get a surprise. I'm just lovin' it. May get me ol' TT out for a spin again.
RobinKidderminster wrote:Thanks sheggs. In a different (bachelor) life I would have become your number one customer. I do think WHF should do an article on this to highlight the enormous potential benefits.
Couldn't agree more Rob, room acoustics seem to be the great elephant in the room - audiophiles seems to spend huge amounts of time and money on their kit and tweaking their systems with isolation supports, and cables and the like, and never once seem to place any consideration to the room its all kept in - which is arguably one of the most important and strongest influences on the sound quality they will hear. Until about 6 months ago, when I started researching this subject, I could probably include myself in that category also!
You frequently see on forums, pictures of people's set-ups with a rack load of high end kit, and top quality speakers, all housed in a plain room with wood floor and leather sofas, not a single absorptive surface in sight, but they insist on changing this speaker cable or that power lead to try and improve the sound they are clearly not content with, without a single thought for the room which is no doubt dramatically limiting the potential of their system.
It is really good to see someone having a go, and I'm really keen to hear more on your experiences with them, subjective or not.
My personal exploration on room treatments will begin next year when I finally get to have a dedicated HC room (courtesy of a new extension). I have read and researched just about every resource I can find on the subject, including several pretty heavy going text books - but still its often difficult to find guidance on the optimum acoustic designs - so a definitive guide on room treatment from the guys at WhatHifi would be benefincial all round I think.
Please do post some pics of your new wall panel, it would be great to see what you've done. DO you plan to add any more - first reflection points maybe?
If you ever fell like having a go at taking some room measurements, they would be interesting to see also - with and without the traps. All you need is a laptop/PC with the right sound card inputs (or external soundcard), a mircophone (or Radioshack SPL meter) and the REW software (which is a free download). That will give you frequency response graphs and waterfall plots to tell you exactly what is happening in your room with regards to frequency response (particularly specific peaks and nulls in the bass range at your various listening positions), and sound decay times. It can also help you identify if your listening positions are still recieving secondary reflections too - Sheggs may be able to offer more guidance on this.
Thanks Chewy for your interest. 100% agreed with. Ignored by so many yet I have found it all a revelation. No voodoo but old science. I will do a few more pix in an effort to encourage others. I'll be back!
At the moment I have a 4in 4x2 trap on the wall behind. Starting as an ezperiment I will make it a bit more wife friendly before posting pix. My design however is very light and I am very happy to hang it up as and when needed. I may try first reflexion but it may get a bit ott. Playing Warhorse last night was an absolute thrill. I totally agree that money is wasted on cables etc unless the room has some modest treatment. I will be very interested to see your hc setup but I am sure it will benefit enormously from our recently discovered knowledge. It would be nice to see the whf listening rooms wrt acoustic treatment. I also hope that lots of forumites join in to share their experiences. Can I pop round for a cuppa when you are done? I'll bring the rubber gloves.
Have you thought about art panels for those first reflection points in your living room? You can choose a image of your own choice. Most acoustic companies sell them or you could find somewhere who does dye sublimination printing (pricey but the only type of acoustic printing) and make your own panels.The panels will only need to be thin to tackle those first relfection points
I also agree with chewy be great to see what the difference it has made to your room. We have a handy video that helps you use the free REW software -
If you don't already own an omni directional mi then the Behringer as in the video is cheap but very effective (about £45 from Amazon)
Is the Behringer better/more accurate than the RadioShack SPL meter? I'm just just wondering of I should get one, but already have the SPL meter?
Also, on first reflection points, am I right in thinking you should be aiming to treat any first reflections that are within 20ms (approx 20ft reflection path)? The only reason I ask, is because that means for me, in my room which is 18.5ft x 11ft, to treat all first reflection points from the front three speakers (all of which would be less than 20ft) I end up covering about two thirds of the side walls, plus a good third of the ceiling.
Plus then if I treat all four corners, all eight tri-corners and all ceiling soffits with bass traps, and the whole of the front wall with broadband absorption (which seems standard practice) - I worry that I will be over treating the room and end up deadening the room? What do you recommend?
(Rob, I hope you don't mind me posing these questions on your thread?)
Gik's video on First Reflection Points.
Hya Chewy Sheggs. +1 for new forum and no probs with highjacking thread! Good to find a discussion. As a Physics grad I should be happy to try the measurements and thanks for the video which should be very helpful. Having said that, I am so happy with my results so far I really dont care about the graphs. Would be fun tho' so must give it a try! Side treatment is a difficult one for me since on one side I have a window bay and the other side is open. Asymetric tho' I have never found an obvious imballance. Another question .... should I angle a rear panel trap up or down or flat against the wall .... is slight angled up going to help with ceiling reflelctions? I am convinced that more treatment would make more huge improvements but limited to a difficult room and a lounge/non hc room I think I am as far down the road as I can go. Not disappointed BUT if only ! ! !
Finished the corner traps. If I did them again I would probably make them taller but they do 'disappear' quite well. The rear panel is 'temporary' but very light so can be removed when we have visitors. I would like to replace the mirror with a proper panel/picture but still experimenting. Blimey Warhorse was amazing!