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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

manicm wrote:

All academic when you're going to spend 800+ on either speaker - the truth is to get the best out of them you'll need electronics to match, and nothing less than 50w in either case.

 

I agree. As I said, I only posted to correct someone else's unfounded assumption that the LS50s were easy to drive, when in fact they're not especially. 

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

The tit for tat thing will go on and on. And even if it doesn't another thread will pop up in a few months and it'll start all over again. 

The ADM's and the LS50's have more in common than people think. Many on here will be separating them both into active and passive, but lets ignore that for the moment.

Both speakers have been designed with technical excellence in mind. I'm assuming both have achieved that with what people are saying of ADM's and what I know of the LS50's. This brings them together in regard to dividing opinions. They're so different to the average speaker out there that many people don't like the sound of them, or prefer something a little more conventional in its sound - ie, warmer and coloured. Just as there will be people praising the ADM's, there will be people marking them down for their honesty - the same goes for the LS50's. 

So why don't we stop with the passive/active thing and just talk about speakers that have been designed for neutrality and faithfulness, and try and get these qualities across to people in a calm, none forceful way? 

It also doesn't help when a comparison is made between active and passive when the poster hasn't heard any passive speakers from the manufacturer they're using as an example in 5-6 years - or even worse, never even heard them at all. 

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

Indeed; or you just get it rammed down your throat by a few folk who've only just bought a pair that - my God - this is the one true way.  No ta.  I'll acknowledge the technical excellence of both as you say David, but I'll pass up on the Kool Aid.   Smile

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

I mean are we trying to sell AVI to everyone, or are we trying to sell the idea of accuracy to everyone?

(I was going to say "the idea of accuracy and therefore more enjoyable", but accuracy isn't necessarily enjoyable to many - hence the divided opinions)

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

...

Both speakers have been designed with technical excellence in mind. I'm assuming both have achieved that with what people are saying of ADM's and what I know of the LS50's. This brings them together in regard to dividing opinions. They're so different to the average speaker out there that many people don't like the sound of them, or prefer something a little more conventional in its sound - ie, warmer and coloured. Just as there will be people praising the ADM's, there will be people marking them down for their honesty - the same goes for the LS50's. 

...  

That may be the case. The real difference is that for not so much more you get not just a speaker, a very well made one for that,  but a whole system, with pre-amp, amplifier (mono blocks in essence), a DAC and remote control.

Add these to what you have to buy for the Kef and you can see why the ADM are a formidable choice. - I have not heard the new Kef but liked the brand for its unhyped designs such as the iQ's which forgoe the usual show room balance some others use in those price categories for a more neutral, even one.

I guess you could build a very nice system with the LS50 and perhaps something from Harman Kardon but it probably still would cost more. Then again, once you add the cost of a sub to the ADM's, which imo was necesseray with the 9.1, things are yet not that cheap anymore. That may have changed with the latest version which uses scanspeak drivers, I dont know but the Kef's are only small boxes too so that issue is not unique to the ADM's.

regards

regards

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

drummerman - that may be true about the ADMs, but some may prefer the additional flexibility and connectivity offered by a seperate DAC and pre-amp/integrated amp.

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

drummerman wrote:
That may be the case. The real difference is that for not so much more you get not just a speaker, a very well made one for that,  but a whole system, with pre-amp, amplifier (mono blocks in essence), a DAC and remote control.

As I've stated before, the LS50's with a Pioneer A50 is (I'm guessing, based on people's opinions) would be a good alternative as far as sound is concerned, and is very similar in price. For some digital inputs, the A70 can be used instead, at a total of £1600. So for that you have a standmount pair of speakers (with only one cable running to each of them), a pre-amp, a very capable Class D amplifier, a DAC with optical, coaxial, and USB inputs, and a remote control. It can drive a second pair, has a phono stage, has tone controls, and has a number of analogue inputs too. Maybe worth the extra for those wanting that flexibility.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

manicm wrote:

drummerman - that may be true about the ADMs, but some may prefer the additional flexibility and connectivity offered by a seperate DAC and pre-amp/integrated amp.

Agree

regards

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

Ethymotic, I know several folks over at AVI forum are monitoring this thread.

You should not be put off posting here, hostile reception or not. It is owners of the product that can give the best description short of being a dealer or manufacturer, biased or not. Just dismiss the jibes and try and be objective about things, including 'conventional' hifi.

FrOg is occasionally posting here, as is JC and a few others. All very interesting and mostly, fair and 'balanced' individuals. Join them.

regards

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

manicm wrote:

drummerman - that may be true about the ADMs, but some may prefer the additional flexibility and connectivity offered by a seperate DAC and pre-amp/integrated amp.

 

Agreed. And you have the possibility to improve or tune your 'passive' system by adding better amplification or sources.

That is not really the case with the ADM, With these you are limited by the quality of the internal amplifiers and DAC.

 

BTW, speaker sound quality is not 100% determined by the used crossover technology. The drive units and cabinet construction are at least as important, probably more important.

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

drummerman wrote:

Ethymotic, I know several folks over at AVI forum are monitoring this thread.

 

Discussions about active/passive speakers are very old and have been there many, many times the last 20 years.

I would say that both solutions have their advantages and disadvantages. I just find it a bit strange that most of the time the 'followers' of active speakers try to convince the others that active speakers are THE solution. Wink

BTW, i owned active 3-way speakers with 3 amplifiers and active crossover in the past and own passive speakers now.

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

ErwinC wrote:

manicm wrote:

drummerman - that may be true about the ADMs, but some may prefer the additional flexibility and connectivity offered by a seperate DAC and pre-amp/integrated amp.

 

Agreed. And you have the possibility to improve or tune your 'passive' system by adding better amplification or sources.

That is not really the case with the ADM, With these you are limited by the quality of the internal amplifiers and DAC.

 

BTW, speaker sound quality is not 100% determined by the used crossover technology. The drive units and cabinet construction are at least as important, probably more important.

 

 

Agreed. And you have the possibility to colour your 'passive' system by adding underpowered amplification or analogue / badly made sources.

That is not really the case with the ADM, With these you are limited by the quality of the internal amplifiers and DAC, which are in the case of the amps, made to be completely compatible with each driver, and in the case of the DAC, a well implemented, state of the art unit.


BTW, speaker sound quality is not 100% determined by the used crossover technology. The drive units and cabinet construction are at least as important, probably more important, but of course taking that which is best in each category, such as an active crossover will in turn give you the best sound...

 

 

- There, fixed it for you, You're welcome.

 

 

 

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

fr0g wrote:

ErwinC wrote:

manicm wrote:

drummerman - that may be true about the ADMs, but some may prefer the additional flexibility and connectivity offered by a seperate DAC and pre-amp/integrated amp.

 

Agreed. And you have the possibility to improve or tune your 'passive' system by adding better amplification or sources.

That is not really the case with the ADM, With these you are limited by the quality of the internal amplifiers and DAC.

 

BTW, speaker sound quality is not 100% determined by the used crossover technology. The drive units and cabinet construction are at least as important, probably more important.

 

 

Agreed. And you have the possibility to colour your 'passive' system by adding underpowered amplification or analogue / badly made sources.

That is not really the case with the ADM, With these you are limited by the quality of the internal amplifiers and DAC, which are in the case of the amps, made to be completely compatible with each driver, and in the case of the DAC, a well implemented, state of the art unit.


BTW, speaker sound quality is not 100% determined by the used crossover technology. The drive units and cabinet construction are at least as important, probably more important, but of course taking that which is best in each category, such as an active crossover will in turn give you the best sound...

 

 

- There, fixed it for you, You're welcome.

 

Never seen a post with more fallacies as this one. Pitty ....

I will not say anything more about this topic as it seems some active followers are getting angry, again. Wink

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

drummerman wrote:

Ethymotic, I know several folks over at AVI forum are monitoring this thread.

You should not be put off posting here, hostile reception or not. It is owners of the product that can give the best description short of being a dealer or manufacturer, biased or not. Just dismiss the jibes and try and be objective about things, including 'conventional' hifi.

Agreed.  I have no issue with Etymotic enjoying his new stereo, I hope he has a great time with them as I would anyone who's treated themselves to some new gear.  I have issues with some of the attitudes and behaviour of some of that crowd.  Enthusiasm is welcomed, which appears to have escaped some elsewhere, but seeing as those self-same sorts encourage this behaviour and attitude, I wouldn't expect that to have been picked up.

 

Etymotic, this is a friendly place, despite appearances, and the crowd here is accepting and welcoming of all manner of folks, newbies and old heads.  If you want to hang around great, if you've jumped ship already, enjoy the swim.   Smile

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RE: Kef ls50 or avi adm9rs or other?

ErwinC wrote:

I would say that both solutions have their advantages and disadvantages. I just find it a bit strange that most of the time the 'followers' of active speakers try to convince the others that active speakers are THE solution. Wink

 

Oh yes, this too.  I like actives, have heard plenty over the last few years.  It's another way of doing things in audio.  "Better" is in the ear of the beholder and preference is down to each of our respective needs.  Hence why one size doesn't fit all and non-active systems are just as good as their active brethren.

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