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Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?
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Just over a week has gone by since my Sumiko Pearwood was retiped with a Frits Gyger II styuls by Northwest Audio. It was good from day one, but over the week it has improved subtly. I re adjusted the down force yesterday, the digital balance arived. As already reported, the new 'recycled wood' TT shelf has played its part dramaticaly.

There was always an open easy sound from the first time I heard the new tip, but as needle time has been acrewed a smoothe, dynamic presentation developed with one becoming aware of extra inner detail. The base line is much stonger, on the right record, 'at the right points in the music . . . !' showing just what the speakers are capable of, mid range detail is superb, top end is well controled, with unnatural subiliance, where I thought it exited, vanished in almost all instances. Dynamics are strong with musicality giving a listening pleasure one keeps wanting to come back to.

Image has taken on a full presentation, not the wide left to right classic stero presentation but a room filling, wall crashing (were appropiate) solid, live performance type of image. One worthy of note is the Nat King Cole 'Love is the Thing', I have an original copy. Not haveing heard the remaster . . . The original is stunning, as I say, a 'real performance', with width, depth, hight, all in layers and the 'King' there very personal with an ease and realisum to the voice, it is amazing . . .

The re tip has changed my perception of classical work, being able to follow a section or individual instrument with ease, again on the right recording. In other words if the infomation is there in the black stuff, the 'Northwest Audio Sumiko' will find it . . . which says a lot for the rest of my simple basic system. I have always believed that it simpley delivers what is presented to it . . . Remembering the old audiophile mantra of yester year; 'quality in, quality out', Dirol

Speaking to Dominic, he sugested that this sort of magic can be worked on lesser cartridges, their monetary value being less than the retip cost, he admits a hard one to sell . . . I fancy the idea of a Denon 103 re tipped with an FGII, the 103, classic in its own right, would it react well . . . just aint got a 103 . . . :?

I had reservations over re tipping, to the extent, I bought the Benz Wood, at the right price, as a possible hedge against things not going to my liking. My fears were unfounded, the £250 re tip is a route I will happily take in the future, working on the basis that styli are consumable items and one will be looking at this senario in a 1000 or so hours again???

All this and a new 'Audio Mods' arm to come . . . where will that take us?

CJSF

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CJSF wrote:
 . . . where will that take us? CJSF

....straight out of the "HiFi is for life" club!  :shifty: Wink

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CnoEvil wrote:

CJSF wrote:
 . . . where will that take us? CJSF

....straight out of the "HiFi is for life" club!  :shifty: Wink

 

Already resigned the hifi for life club Cno . . . I am a weak appreciator of music and hifi . . . made me think though, reflect.  Looking back over my previous life, and the past two years?  Hifi or preferably 'listening to music', is apreciation of the same, the medium and equipment used is secondary.

However, to get the best from equipment is part of the pleasure in my eyes, hense, I am a tweaker, not a box changer.  The essence of my system is still Rega P5, Croft intigrated amp, LB1 speakers, plus the same interconect and speaker cables I have used for 30 years.  Swaping boxes is so often for the sake of it, the sound is not what is expected, so, throw money at it, change a box or two.  Read the threads and posts, so often little understanding of how and why.

My pleasure is to tune the hifi a bit like tuning an engine, get the most from it, to do any more, you have to change major parts and know what you are doing, knowing what one is doing? . . . can be a learning process too.  I have often tweaked or changed and turned back a step or two because the change was a step to far.  Dont make that 'honest step back' and one ends up going round in ever decreasing circles, with the inevitable result, 'plop'!!!

Sadly, modern hifi is hard to tune.  A turntable is asking to be loved and caressed, it is mechanical and responds to the delicate tweakings of its owner.

Discovered, I am not a hifi is for life person, I am a 'love your turntable and music' type of person, where changes and adjustments are carfully and thoughtfully administered and the results appreciated.

CJSF

 

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CJSF wrote:
my simple basic system.

Basic? Don't be silly, I've never even heard of three quarters of your gear, there's nothing basic about it (simple is a different matter)!

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CJSF wrote:

Discovered, I am not a hifi is for life person, I am a 'love your turntable and music' type of person, where changes and adjustments are carfully and thoughtfully administered and the results appreciated.

CJSF

CJ, you have honorary membership in my alternative club  :shifty:......and you can have the job of Chairman, if you want it.  Dirol

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

Has Jeff got an arm for you to try first CJ, just finkin. Ok , tis a rega but taint , you know where I'm coming from here  ;).

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

The_Lhc wrote:

CJSF wrote:
my simple basic system.

Basic? Don't be silly, I've never even heard of three quarters of your gear, there's nothing basic about it (simple is a different matter)!

 

. . . You must live a very sheltered life The_Lhc . . . ??? 

. . . OK, its a very simple system, working on basic priciples . . . the monies spent are not penuts, however looking at the system, the money was spent wisley.  The Sumiko retip and the new recycled wooden TT shelf are key, quality in . . .

The Rega combination is modest but has good enginereing where it matters, I capitalised on this with specific upgrades to matain/enhance the SQ.  Dont forget the Sumiko was second hand and cheap, indeed, close to the stylus being worn out but not enough for me to apreciate at the time, it had quality.

The Croft hybrid amplifyer is as simple and basic as it gets, sounds amazing considering £1000 price tag.  Linn K20 speaker cable at £5pm and interconects with RS nickle plated plugs that I made myself 30 years ago.  Runing the risk of starting a cable war? . . . I have compared the speaker cable to those 10x more expensive, the changes were minimal, not enough to purswade me to part with cash.  The interconects have twice in the past 2 years been compared, one comparison very recently, with £350 jobies, no differance of note, believe me, the cable was cheap to buy.

PMC LB1 speakers and Foundation Designer Stands are the one area that is very pricy, the equivelent today is an arm and a leg . . . the stands and their technology are not avaliable.  These items are a lagacy I am greatfull to have left over from my previous life.

So, perhaps not a cheap system, but 'simple' bassed on 'basic principules', carfully bought and assembled as second hand and ex dem, the rest is tweaking to maximise performance of the simple system . . . If only I still had my old 80's system, then I might agree, basic it was not!

The final point, Hazel and I get a lot of pleasur from our simple, old fashoned 2 channel hifi . . . and thats what it is all about.

CJSF

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

floyd droid wrote:

Has Jeff got an arm for you to try first CJ, just finkin. Ok , tis a rega but taint , you know where I'm coming from here  ;).

 

I hear what you say Floyd.  I am concerened that the balance of my system might be so fine that a new arm, all be it a Rega derivitive, might upset the apple cart . . . or even the differeance between the new 'MkV' and the 'Classic' may be a stumbling block.  I dont want the sound to move into the cold, digital type information retreval with out the organic analogue sound I curently have?   Looking at the specs and talking to Jeff the other day, I get a feeling in the water that the original 'Classic' may suit better, matching up with the still very simple and basic Rega P5, keeping the that organic edge?  A concern I have if Dominic ever comes up with a slat plinth for the Rega?

I'll speak to Jeff in the week.

CJSF

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CnoEvil wrote:

CJSF wrote:

Discovered, I am not a hifi is for life person, I am a 'love your turntable and music' type of person, where changes and adjustments are carfully and thoughtfully administered and the results appreciated.

CJSF

CJ, you have honorary membership in my alternative club  :shifty:......and you can have the job of Chairman, if you want it.  Dirol

 

 Are you saying Cno, I have more rabbit than Sainsburys . . .  Dirol

With respect, I decline the job . . . CJSF :cheers:

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CJSF wrote:

Are you saying Cno, I have more rabbit than Sainsburys . . .  Dirol

No, I'm saying you are venerable.

CJSF wrote:

With respect, I decline the job . . . CJSF :cheers:

I know! Smile

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CJSF wrote:

I hear what you say Floyd.  I am concerened that the balance of my system might be so fine that a new arm, all be it a Rega derivitive, might upset the apple cart . . .

 

:grin:  Tis my worry for you obviously. Mich's Tecno arm as you know is a rega derivative. That would have been a no-go and if you had been pondering on it i would have put you off. Great arm but not for your lugs.

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

CJSF wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

CJSF wrote:
my simple basic system.

Basic? Don't be silly, I've never even heard of three quarters of your gear, there's nothing basic about it (simple is a different matter)!

. . . You must live a very sheltered life The_Lhc . . . ???

Hardly but hi-fi is not a very large part of my life.

Quote:
The Croft hybrid amplifyer is as simple and basic as it gets, sounds amazing considering £1000 price tag.

See, that's the difference, you say that as if £1000 is nothing to spend on an amp and you couldn't expect much from it, to me that's about 3 times what I'm realistically going to spend on a stereo amp, so I'd expect it to sound better than amazing.

Quote:
The final point, Hazel and I get a lot of pleasur from our simple, old fashoned 2 channel hifi . . . and thats what it is all about.

I wouldn't question that for a minute, it's simply the description of basic that amused me, you'd probably think my system wasn't even worth connecting to the mains...

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

The_Lhc wrote:

CJSF wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

CJSF wrote:
my simple basic system.

Basic? Don't be silly, I've never even heard of three quarters of your gear, there's nothing basic about it (simple is a different matter)!

. . . You must live a very sheltered life The_Lhc . . . ???

Hardly but hi-fi is not a very large part of my life.

Quote:
The Croft hybrid amplifyer is as simple and basic as it gets, sounds amazing considering £1000 price tag.

See, that's the difference, you say that as if £1000 is nothing to spend on an amp and you couldn't expect much from it, to me that's about 3 times what I'm realistically going to spend on a stereo amp, so I'd expect it to sound better than amazing.

Quote:
The final point, Hazel and I get a lot of pleasur from our simple, old fashoned 2 channel hifi . . . and thats what it is all about.

I wouldn't question that for a minute, it's simply the description of basic that amused me, you'd probably think my system wasn't even worth connecting to the mains...

 

Dont put your self down The_Lhc.  You forget, I started back into hifi with a 20 year old Rotel 820, my late fathers amp, and a pair of computer speakers.

A grand is big bucks by my standards too, in valve terms its peanuts, however one does not judge by price.  I nearly went for the Rega Brio but on audition, there was no contest, although one had to pay 'twice as much', I had to scratch, it was not offered on a plate.  However I gave the Rega a chance, in your case the used market would be the way forward.  I paid next to nothing for the Sumiko cartridge as a used item, took a gamble, it paid off.

. . . . ???, all the best CJSF

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

floyd droid wrote:

CJSF wrote:

I hear what you say Floyd.  I am concerened that the balance of my system might be so fine that a new arm, all be it a Rega derivitive, might upset the apple cart . . .

 

:grin:  Tis my worry for you obviously. Mich's Tecno arm as you know is a rega derivative. That would have been a no-go and if you had been pondering on it i would have put you off. Great arm but not for your lugs.

 

Its the reason why I am leaning towards the 'Classic Arm' by Audio Mods.  Its cheaper and I believe it still retains the essence of the Rega philosophy and enginering . . . looking at the new Audio Mods 'MkV arm', there are shades of design that will take it to be to clinical for me.  One is approaching the point where one has to stop . . . or bite the bullett and move up a gear, to rich for me, that will be . . . I need to win the lottery.

So, its Horlicks time, relax . . .

CJSF

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

Hey CJ, bit of horlicks hr mull it over for ya. Johnnie Nilsen aka J7 ( Audio Origami ) is the undisputed king of fettleing Regas. I mentioned him to you in another thread. A phone call could save you a few hundred quid and a load of tears. 

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RE: Sumiko magic . . . my final coments ?

Careful with those Audio Origami chaps CJ. They use a lot of silver Smile

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