New amplifier: my long journey...

£3999 ...

http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:category=1720028&mode=product&product=7409718

Yes, but this is second hand...the one I am supposed to buy is basically brand new. It came from MF for the listeniing, and will go back if I dont buy it...plus if I buy outside Belgium I need a shop which will deduct the VAT as I will use my Belgian VAT number to make the purchase...I will contact these guys anyway, thanks for the tip

Given your absence, I thought you were up to something!

The amp that Tino mentioned is at one of my local dealers, who is selling it on behalf of a customer.

With regard to the price you've been offered, I think it's very fair, as the most you can usually get off a brand new amp is 10% (£5400)......so I think you are getting it at around the ex-dem price.

As usual I have a few thoughts:

- DCS make some of the very best CDPs/Dacs available, so no more complaints about the source.....how close did this get, compared to vinyl. They also make the Debussy Dac, which is stunning. As you have probably witnessed, the more expensive the amp, the more expensive the source has to be to show what it can do.

- I would like you to hear the 35i with Cardas cabling (G. Ref power cord / G.Cross s/c and i/c. This will (imo) add that little bit of richness and remove any brightness.....I'm not recommending you buy it at this stage, but it could make your buying decision easier ie. If it turns the 35i into your perfect amp, it can be done later.....you should find that just adding the Cardas p/c makes a big difference.

- The 35i does sound like it has an extra octave of bass.....as I've mentioned before, with my Refs, it's like having a sub on. It also has remarkable control, resolution and transient response, which once heard, is hard to walk away from. It can make other amps sound slow witted in comparison (I'm glad you heard it when properly warmed up).

- The synergy with the speakers is crucial, and given how the SF GMs "move you", it's vital that you try the 35i with them (try to find a way!). I suspect that this might be the clincher ie. which amp sounds best with them will win the day.
I would still urge you to try 35i + 205/2s + Cardas + decent source.....I then have a reference point, as I know this presentation like the back of my hand.

- If you can get the sound you want from a SS amp, it will be a lot less hassle in the future....but not worth compromising on if you prefer valves (this is why I want you to try Cardas cables, which raise the musicality of the MF even higher).

- If you feel the 35i wins the day, then it's a matter of getting the best speaker match....and if all else has failed, you can then bring the newly bought amp to the SFs. This means you will have to decide which is more important, amp or speakers....ie. The SFs with the right amp (Jardis); or MF with SF/Avalon/Kef/other.

This is what's going through my head, so what do you think?

CnoEvil wrote:

Given your absence, I thought you were up to something! The amp that Tino mentioned is at one of my local dealers, who is selling it on behalf of a customer. With regard to the price you've been offered, I think it's very fair, as the most you can usually get off a brand new amp is 10% (£5400)......so I think you are getting it at around the ex-dem price. As usual I have a few thoughts: - DCS make some of the very best CDPs/Dacs available, so no more complaints about the source.....how close did this get, compared to vinyl. They also make the Debussy Dac, which is stunning. As you have probably witnessed, the more expensive the amp, the more expensive the source has to be to show what it can do. - I would like you to hear the 35i with Cardas cabling (G. Ref power cord / G.Cross s/c and i/c. This will (imo) add that little bit of richness and remove any brightness.....I'm not recommending you buy it at this stage, but it could make your buying decision easier ie. If it turns the 35i into your perfect amp, it can be done later.....you should find that just adding the Cardas p/c makes a big difference. - The 35i does sound like it has an extra octave of bass.....as I've mentioned before, with my Refs, it's like having a sub on. It also has remarkable control, resolution and transient response, which once heard, is hard to walk away from. It can make other amps sound slow witted in comparison (I'm glad you heard it when properly warmed up). - The synergy with the speakers is crucial, and given how the SF GMs "move you", it's vital that you try the 35i with them (try to find a way!). I suspect that this might be the clincher ie. which amp sounds best with them will win the day. I would still urge you to try 35i + 205/2s + Cardas + decent source.....I then have a reference point, as I know this presentation like the back of my hand. - If you can get the sound you want from a SS amp, it will be a lot less hassle in the future....but not worth compromising on if you prefer valves (this is why I want you to try Cardas cables, which raise the musicality of the MF even higher). - If you feel the 35i wins the day, then it's a matter of getting the best speaker match....and if all else has failed, you can then bring the newly bought amp to the SFs. This means you will have to decide which is more important, amp or speakers....ie. The SFs with the right amp (Jardis); or MF with SF/Avalon/Kef/other. This is what's going through my head, so what do you think?

As usual a lot of helpful inputs from you...was really waiting for that.
Ok, so if the shop is selling on behalf of a customer that measn VAT is not deductible...chapter closed than.

Well source is indeed very important but still I think vinyl has that something more...

I must say I am now very confused...I will try tomorrow to ask my dealer in Antwerp if something could be done in order to try the AMS35 with the SFs...as I really loved those speakers, you are right. 

Futhermore, my gf loves the Jadis and she thinks the MF is nothing special in terms of design (will I ever be able to understand women?!?). I will pay for it but I would like to keep her involved as well...it is unfair as she didn't see the AMS live yet but she was taken from the tube charm (me too to be honest ).

I also think that MF needed some more running in as it is brand new almost...this could further improve the quality. 

Pfff...I am in a difficult situation...maybe a good night sleep will help clarifying my ideas

Thanks for all the support!

The first thing I have noticed (and it is not my intention to sound patronizing), is how insightful you have become when listening to the nuances of different amps/speakers......a quick learner, shall we say.

You are now really starting to hear the strengths and weaknesses of the Jadis......ie. Do you want everything sugar coated, or will you miss the extra excitement and detail of the MF. This may be the key to unlocking the answer, and could take a little more time.

As I said some time back, the Jardis will be unbeatable with certain types of music (eg. simple acoustic, violin concertos and Italian Opera), but may not be as versatile...so which amp plays to the strengths of the type of music, to which you are most likely to listen?

Given your love of vinyl, you must also hear the 35i with this. The easiest way to solve your dilemma, is by hearing as many of the relevant permutations as possible....which is not going to be easy, but is preferable, given the money at stake.

Tell the gf, that the hot valves will be hazardous to the large number of kids you are going to have. ......only use this as a last resort, as it could be hard to come back from.

Is there no happy medium hybrid valve/SS amplifier that would do the trick or are we now at the final shootout round between the Jadis and the MF AMS35i?

FWIW ... I've heard good things about the hybrid AMR-777 and Pathos Ethos both coming in at around 3K and a bit GBP (ish). Probably out of the question auditioning them at this late stage????

Pathos Inpol 2 ( ! hint ! hint ! )

... but don't expect miracles here. what you heard is what you get (unless you convince yourself that sound has changed considerably).

nice one! I would definitely go for one of their CDPs...

I agree with both Tino and Oldric.

Pathos could well be a happy medium.....and is stylish enough to satisfy all but the hardest cases.

I believe my amp improved over time, but it was subtle and may be my imagination....due to the length of time, AB comparisons were impossible.

Only one way to sort this out ...  ....

Between us, all were likely to do, is make Acalex's brain explode!

Ahaha, is exploding a little bit but I like all inputs as for sure this time whenever I will make my decision I know it will be the right one.

Yes I have become much more attentive to subtle differences now and I can finally spot them (thanks to all the learning I have got here, really appreciated and I won't thank you enough  )

Tino, Pathos would be a nice option...but it's very hard to find here in Belgium (no dealers here) but I have to move to Holland. If I do this I won't be able to use my VAT number (as shops won't sell VAT excluded if you are not in the hi-fi business...do not know why but it's like that). Tomorrow I will try to call Pathos and ask what's the official importer in this area. Then I will call them and asks if there is any shop here in Belgium

But if I go for Pathos would be for the Inpol2...as I am afraid only 10W would start becoming even more problematic to match with right speakers.

Well...I felt so confident about my new "audio skills" that today I went in there very confident that the Jadis would have been much better somewhere and a bit less somewhere else. I was convinced the "warmth" of the tube would have taken my away to forget the AMS...but actually the AMS sounded like a freacking tube amp...!

The Jadis was only slightly better on some specific songs/sounds...but he got sand in the face on everything else...especially on pieces with rapid changes of low and high sounds (how to express this in english...big dynamics?). For example a piano playing in background and suddendly a big drum and trumpets jumping in for a few seconds really...the impact was much bigger with the AMS. 

On the other hand where I thought the Jadis would suck big time it actually defended itself quite well...the bass department. Even the dealer had to admit (he was pushing me quite hard towards the AMS) that for being a tube amp the Jadis was not bad at ll compared to the monster. Indeed on the song "Night Train" by Christian Mcbride I think the Jadis wasn't bad at all compared with the AMS. But again...only one instrument...nothing too complex...the perfect situation for the Jadis.

Where I could really tell the difference was a huge orchestra mixing voices and instruments on a very intense piece. A dificult recording...but that was much more impressive on the AMS. The Jadis seemed not to be able to reach certain limits of intensity...even turning up the volume. 

Something I also noticed about the volume is that Jadis is very effective at the beginning...but after a certain point you keep turning up but don't get the same response on music. Every notch of AMS was like adding more intensity...I have listened to a level which would be impossible for me...and I still quite enjoyed....

What to say...I will hope to go tomorrow to the second shop and see what I can do with him...he also has in stock the AMR...

Hi acalex ... the Pathos Ethos is actually 100W per channel into 8 ohm .... I think you are thinking of the Inpol Remix which is the Class A 10W per channel. The Ethos is a valve preamp/semiconductor hybrid.

Nevertheless I think you are lucky to have such a fine choice of amplifiers to choose from and I'm sure with your ears, your girlfriend's approval and Cno's expert advice you'll get there in the end. Good luck!

PS If you listen to the AMR-777 ... would be nice to hear how it sounds.

Hello

Sorry I couldn't make it today

As I can read there is a big chance you and up withthe AMS.

If you have the chance testing thr clear audio TT on the ams (I would really like to hear that).

Good luck

Ah yes, you are right I got confused sorry. If I listen to the AMR, I will tell you for sure how it sounds