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Andrew Everard's picture
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RE: Audibly transparent

spiny norman wrote:
All this active-aggressive beahiviour is getting very tiresome.

The spirit of the beahiviour?

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RE: Audibly transparent

Andrew17321 wrote:

 

So do not get too hung up on figures, they measure only bits of the sounds we sense.

Andrew

Measurements often explain why things are/sound the way they do. To understand some of it is simply widening  knowledge. How you use your findings is another matter but to simply ignore the only thing that is not subjective is a little foolish.

regards

 

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RE: Audibly transparent

drummerman wrote:

spiny norman wrote:

WinterRacer wrote:
Hard for turntables and speakers, especially passive ones.

All this active-aggressive beahiviour is getting very tiresome.

 

I'm more of a passive-aggressive but can see where the active may come in handy ...

regards

I haven't intended any aggression, passive or otherwise.  Apologies if anything came over that way.

 

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RE: Audibly transparent

WinterRacer wrote:

drummerman wrote:

spiny norman wrote:

WinterRacer wrote:
Hard for turntables and speakers, especially passive ones.

All this active-aggressive beahiviour is getting very tiresome.

 

I'm more of a passive-aggressive but can see where the active may come in handy ...

regards

I haven't intended any aggression, passive or otherwise.  Apologies if anything came over that way.

 

It didn't. No idea where he got that from.

regards

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RE: Audibly transparent

Andrew17321 wrote:

 

To add to Cno's quote, it is a trait in modern life to consider relevant only criteria which can be measured and given a number.

So do not get too hung up on figures, they measure only bits of the sounds we sense.

Andrew

We can measure far more than we can hear.  The difference is that measuring equipment isn't biased as we are with any expectation.  

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RE: Audibly transparent

WinterRacer wrote:

Thanks Craig, that's the article I was thinking of.

One point I think is important, I believe accurate kit is pleasing kit.  The idea that it isn't I find very strange.

I agree.

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RE: Audibly transparent

spiny norman wrote:

WinterRacer wrote:
Hard for turntables and speakers, especially passive ones.

All this active-aggressive beahiviour is getting very tiresome.

Nothing will change.

 

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Audibly transparent

CnoEvil wrote:

I prefer the quote from Nelson Pass - "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgement. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers are for those who do not."

These two quotes nicely highlight the two diverging opinions, as to what is most important when buying a hifi system.....and there is no right or wrong, only what brings maximum joy to the owner.

that quote is so wrong imo! It is completely upside down and mixed up! Imo.

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RE: Audibly transparent

CnoEvil wrote:
 "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgement. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers are for those who do not."

I'm liking that. It doesn't mean I'm going to adopt it and live my life by it, but I like it Smile

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Audibly transparent

WinterRacer wrote:

the record spot wrote:

Very hard to achieve in standard audio.  Very hard to achieve in passive or active systems too.  You might get close, but recreating the "as is"?  Nope.  Hence why many folk go for "pleasing" and whatever version of "pleasing" you think that is.  

 

Hard for turntables and speakers, especially passive ones..  I'd suggest we're there, or thereabouts for digital transports, streamers, DACs, SS Pre and power amps, oh yeah, nearly forgot cables in that list! Smile

 

 

agree again!

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RE: Audibly transparent

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:
Nothing will change.

Ash's to Ash's, so to speak

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RE: Audibly transparent

spiny norman wrote:

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:
Nothing will change.

Ash's to Ash's, so to speak

Quite normal that on a subject like this, active vs passive or the issue of topology will come into play if you ask me. Its all audio.

Perhaps hobby botanica is more peaceful? Mind you, there are probably some prickly issues too ...

regards

 

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RE: Audibly transparent

AlmaataKZ wrote:

WinterRacer wrote:

the record spot wrote:

Very hard to achieve in standard audio.  Very hard to achieve in passive or active systems too.  You might get close, but recreating the "as is"?  Nope.  Hence why many folk go for "pleasing" and whatever version of "pleasing" you think that is.  

 

Hard for turntables and speakers, especially passive ones..  I'd suggest we're there, or thereabouts for digital transports, streamers, DACs, SS Pre and power amps, oh yeah, nearly forgot cables in that list! Smile

 

 

agree again!

 

And disagree.  Again.  

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RE: Audibly transparent

AlmaataKZ wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

I prefer the quote from Nelson Pass - "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgement. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers are for those who do not."

These two quotes nicely highlight the two diverging opinions, as to what is most important when buying a hifi system.....and there is no right or wrong, only what brings maximum joy to the owner.

that quote is so wrong imo! It is completely upside down and mixed up! Imo.

......and that is precisely why the two camps will never agree, or manage to change the mind of those with a different perspective.

There is no sense in buying a system just because it's (supposed to be) "accurate", if you hate the way it sounds, because it won't be listened to.....so logically, pleasure from the music is all that matters and the driving force behind any choice.

If that happens to be a system that (you believe) is as neutral, accurate and transparent as possible - great.....but even that is likely to have a subjective element to it.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Audibly transparent

Reminds me of religion Smile

(no offence to anyone who is religious, of course)

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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