Apple says 30-pin dock adapter for iPhone 5 and new iPods has a DAC
Read our review of the iPhone 5
UPDATE: The UK Apple Store has now gone live with details of the new iPhone 5, new iPods and the Lightning-to-30-pin-dock connector adapter. The page for the adapter (above) confirms that it does support 'analog audio output and USB audio', but not video output, and we have been informed it does have a DAC inside.
The adapter will be available from next month.
NEW iPhone 5: click here for all the official details and pictures
NEW iPod touch and nano: click here for details, pictures, prices
POSTED 20:00 13.09.12: According to our colleagues on Stuff magazine, Apple has confirmed that the Lightning adapter does have a DAC built-in.
They say: 'Stuff has just had a chat with Apple about the steep price of that Lightning connector and it’s been revealed to us why.
'As you may have noticed the Lightning port is purely digital, but the old 30-pin connection in your car or on your speaker dock uses an analogue signal.
'Apple’s Lightning to 30-pin Adapter has its own DAC (Digital-to-Analogue Converter) allowing the iPhone 5's digital signal to be understood by your analogue dock – which isn’t a cheap or simple piece of kit.'
So it should work with existing docks that take an analogue connection, though it might now scupper docks and other devices that previously took a digital connection and used their own DACs.
Video out still won't work and the 'iPod Out' connection, which works with some in-car audio systems to show an in-car iPod display, won't work with the new adapter.
Confusing? Just a little.
Original story 13.09.12
Apple announced a new Lightning connection for the iPhone 5 and new iPod touch and iPod nano, and it seems even with a £25 adapter, it may not play music through your existing kit.
Speaker docks, some in-car connections and even existing Apple connecting cables may not work even with the addition of the £25 Lightning adapter to connect to your shiny new Apple device.
This is because it looks like the new Apple connection doesn't output an analogue signal, so any kit that takes an analogue audio signal – and that's most of them – wouldn't work.
On the Apple website it clearly states on the Lightning to 30-Pin adapter page, "video and iPod Out not supported", and that "some 30-pin accessories are not supported".
Sources close to Apple have told us that it should work fine with existing Apple docks but we're struggling to confirm the details.
While other sites, such as the Cypher Labs blog, seem adamant the Lightning connection won't output analogue audio.
Meanwhile other sources within the Apple accessory industry seem more convinced that ultimately Apple wants people connecting wirelessly via AirPlay and that the dock as a music solution looks to be on the way out longer term.
Certainly it's clearly not up for debate that video output won't work through the adapter, which will be a shame for anyone who wanted to see video from their iPhone or new iPod touch or iPod nano on a screen through a USB connection.
One solution, being suggested by the 148apps site, is that this Lightning to 30-Pin adapter has a built-in DAC, which can convert the digital signal to analogue before it reaches your kit.
But for £25, that would be pretty good value for a tiny DAC. And Apple certainly did not make that clear.
We know that many Apple accessory manufacturers are looking in to this now, and will report back as soon as we hear more news. Naturally, we've asked Apple's PR team, too.
Comments
This is a salutory lesson to ALL Apple fanboys out there. You are buying into propietary technology : they can reinvent the rules as they go along and make money out of you again & again.
The ludicrous cost of the iPhone 5, marks it out as a luxury product. I can imagine Apple ditching the phone part not long into the future : who will even notice?
A product for everyman? I think not!
True, I was thinking more of those in-car systems with an old 30-pin connector rather than USB, which will need the new adapter for the iPhone 5:
"Video out still won't work and the 'iPod Out' connection, which works with some in-car audio systems to show an in-car iPod display, won't work with the new adapter."
Surely if you connect to the car using a USB socket the adapter won't be relevant – you'll just connect the standard 9-pin-port-to-USB cable supplied with the iPhone 5 into the USB socket in your car, and you're done.
The in-car issue is an interesting one. I have a USB socket in the car that connects my iPhone 4 to the in-car multimedia system and it works a treat, displaying tracks/albums etc on the sat-nav screen and giving me full control via the car's audio system. Not sure if the new adapter will be fully functional with in-car systems currently using the 30-pin connector though. We'll have to run some tests when we get our hands on the iPhone 5.
And if you're planning to buy a new iPod, I'd wait for one of the new docks with the smaller connector built in.
Have just ordered a new car with iPod connectivity albeit there is probably time to tweek it. Was also planning to buy an iPod and home docking station/radio eg a Bose.
Now completely confused as to which way to go. Any advice welcome, please
What are the
*Some 30-pin accessories are not supported.
Just how many devices are going to look questionable as well as not work with these new adaptors?
Hell I saw a docking sofa and a table in a DFS advert, I bet they're happy unless they are up to date with the 8pin.
i hear iphone 5s will play FLAC.
o noess that was a dream.
If the compact Lightning to 30-pin adapter is supposed to house a DAC and associated circuitry, how come the corded version of this adapter, with each connector on the ends of a 0.2 metre wire, doesn't look as if there is any space for those electronics?
The adapter shown in the photo above, may just about have room for some micro-circuitry (which some people are doubting), but the connectors on either end of the corded version are much smaller.
See here.
Hmm, not sure having a iPhone 5 wobbling about on top of the adaptor sitting on top the dock 'will just work'.
Showing my age, reminds me of the RAM pack plugged into the back of the ZX81 and making intermittent contact...
"Not if, like the the current 30-pin connector, it's able to pass both digital and analogue"
Andrew, Is this not a ridiculous situation that Apple have got themselves into?
If you don't know exactly what is going on at WHF towers then what bloody hope does the average consumer have? To not know whether an adapter is included or not and what will work with what is very poor marketing given that marketing is one of Apple's strengths. My proposed purchase has very much gone in the 'pending tray'.
Not if, like the the current 30-pin connector, it's able to pass both digital and analogue.
Who's buying a new mini computer iphone5 then?
This is what they are....
So in other words, the adapter is totally useless with digital docks like the Arcam drDock, Wadia etc?
.
You get a lightning to micro-usb adapter. Everyone smartphone sold in europe has to come with microusb.
They are separately bringing out a different lead to handle video out to hdmi.
So thats 2x£25 to fork out.
Apple Shop is open and updated .... you get an adaptor free with the phone!
"Your iPhone includes a Lightning to 30-pin Adapter for connecting 30-pin accessories to devices featuring the Lightning connector"
...And now it seems you don't! Honestly, this adapter saga has more twists and turns than a Dan Brown novel.
ie Two...
Unless of course the DAC is powered from the device connected to the other end of the adapter...
Isn't this potentially good news from a hifi point of view? One of my frustrations has been not being able to power a portable dac from my iPad. But if now apple can power a dac from the iPhone 5 and therefore presumably the iPod touch and going forward New iPads then this must open the way for others to follow? It would be interesting to know whether the power output from the new 9 pin connector has been increased over the old 30 pin on ios5?
Any change is always painful. But we will eventually see the benefits and look back to wonder why we objected to the advancement.
One thing to remember is that iTunes now has its playback monitored/linked via iCloud. So you can leave the car, listen via ear phones, arrive in the house and airplay to your chosen device without missing or having to reselect the playlist. This would seem to require the iPod/iPhone to be in control of playback not the conned device.
There is a Lightning to USB cable, surely we just swap the whole cable not adapt ... we'll find out in a couple of weeks.
Apple Shop is open and updated .... you get an adaptor free with the phone!
"Your iPhone includes a Lightning to 30-pin Adapter for connecting 30-pin accessories to devices featuring the Lightning connector"
"though it now seems to scupper docks and other devices that previously took a digital connection and used their own DACs."
I spy another opportunity for Apple to make a few more quid out of the poor unsuspecting users.
Simples, just make an adaptor without an inbuilt DAC and change those with digital dockks like the Onkyo another £15 so they can continue to use it!
Stopped buying docks when apple changed from firewire charging to usb charging. One time was enough for me.
So, having a dac, does the new adapter eat into battery life?
Hmmm the Nokia N920 is getting my attention more then th Iphone 5 - never thought that would happen as I love Iphone 4. But for music the Nokia seems to having the edge!
http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2012/09/05/jbl-power-up-did-nokia-just-outfox-airplay/
By using cleverly placed words to describe their new Adapter that have pushed the vast majority of iDocks into obselescence.
It's not good enough for those of us who live the Apple dream and buy into things Apple...............really no where near good enough.
I have ATV3 and Airplay is absolutely vile through it, so why I would want to be forced to pursue that venture is beyond me, I still want choice but not at the expense over Apple's change of plan, as asked before just how many iDock devices are out there, must be millions and Apple say.................we are now going to force you down another route!!!
Could be the end of this man's support for them unless I am misreading the debate
The connector having a built-in DAC makes no sense at all. If it does then what's the point of a digital dock, especially when the iPod itself has a built-in DAC??
What I think Apple means by 'iPod out' not supported is analogue cables like Russ Andrews connecting to 3.5mm jacks.
The most annoying bit will be in car music - if you have a Hifi Dock etc then its annoying but not the end of the world, especially if it is literally just a dock (obviously a whole system like a Zeppelin or something would still be annoying), as they are (very generalistically) replaceable. But if you have a car with built in iPod connectivity then you are basically bu**ered if you want to use the iPhone 5.
Although I'm not thinking of getting a 5 that imminently, this may be the time to invest in an iPod classic for in car (which has it's benefits anyway..)
This is all done to push out a new sub 100 pound docks and to get people to buy in to air play.
Just for clarification; You will find on the Apple website the Adaptor states 'This adapter lets you connect devices with a Lightning connector to many of your 30-pin accessories.* Video and iPod Out not supported.
By the description of iPod out, they relate to Analogue line-out. So it will not work with analogue docks and doesn't appear to convert analogue to digital inside the adaptor part.
Most docks out there are analogue, with the exception of just a very small number; including the Monitor Audio i-decks. These are all digital using the USB digital protocol and iAP.
Well the Apple website description of the Lightning Connector now clearly states it is 'all digital'
So as stated, unless the Apple - or other - adapters come with a built-in DAC....
Just how many docking devices are there out there that will only work up to the iPhone 4s??
This is madness....................sure there may be patent issues, but to throw it at the consumer in one fell swoop is shocking, they now have to invest over and above the device in an adaptor that may or may not work, looks like a fag packet add on, and will not aesthetically match just about any docking device out there.
It is a bloody disgrace that the consumer has to be targeted this way, and there seems to be no way out if you want the new generation iThings
Wasn't all this change kicked off due to the original connector being an invention of (the now Google-owned) Motorola? If so at least it's avoided another boring patent case. I wouldn't like to guess at how many of these adapters are going to be snapped off though!