UPDATE: BBC experiments with 1080p broadcasts on Freeview HD - but viewers complain of audio dropouts
Published 10.06.11
Samsung is the latest TV manufacturer to admit that a change in the way the BBC broadcasts its HD channels is causing audio dropout on some of its TVs.
In a statement to whathifi.com, the company says:
"In light of the reported sound problems with BBC HD channels, Samsung has been working on a software update for its TVs.
"Samsung is currently testing this software update to ensure that it resolves the sound issues that some people have experienced and we would like to thank customers for their patience.
"The software update will be released following completion of the testing procedure."
Meanwhile, Sony says it has resolved the problem and will issue a software update at the end of June:
"This issue has been resolved. The software is currently undergoing final quality assurance testing. We are targeting the end of June to make a software release.
"Sets that are connected to the internet will update automatically. Sets not connected to the internet can be updated by USB.
We will update this forum when the software has been made available."
Published 03.06.11
Toshiba has today confirmed that some of its sets have been affected by audio dropout on BBC HD channels since the Beeb began switching between 1080i and 1080p high-definition broadcasts on Freeview.
In a statement to whathifi.com, Toshiba UK says:
“After the introduction of transmission mode switching by the BBC, a limited number of Toshiba sets have been affected by very brief instances of audio dropout.
"An over-the-air update has already been issued to fix the majority of sets affected, and we’re currently developing a further update for the small amount of models that may still be affected.
"We’re working closely with the BBC to resolve these issues, and we thank all Toshiba customers for their patience and apologise for any inconvenience caused.”
We are still waiting for Sony UK to confirm exactly when a fix for its sets will be available, although on its support website it says a firmware update is "due soon".
Published 26.05.11
A spokesperson for Panasonic UK has confirmed that its TVs are not affected by sound dropout on BBC HD channels. "All tests confirmed our sets were OK," she told whathifi.com.
We are still waiting for an official response from Samsung on this issue, and will report back as soon as we get it.
Published 20.05.11
We've just received an official response from the BBC and Sony following the publication of our story yesterday. In a statement on its UK website, Sony says:
"The BBC has introduced dynamic picture switching to improve picture quality during programme broadcasts, this has unexpectedly created a problem with an audio dropout, on the 2010 and 2011 Sony Bravia TVs.
"Sony is testing a fix to this problem, and we will have more information within the next seven to 10 days, as there are other countries with HD broadcasts, we are checking to ensure that they are not affected by any changes made.
"This fix will improve the transition from 1080i to 1080p and back, to ensure the audio, picture and data information are not interrupted.
We thank you for your patience and will update the forum once we have confirmation of the fix and its availability to all our customers."
At the same time, we've received this statement from the BBC:
"The BBC worked closely with receiver manufacturers ahead of these changes to investigate any interoperability issues.
"A small number of issues were found and some manufacturers issued fixes to alleviate those problems. We always seek to ensure we provide high quality services to viewers whatever equipment they choose to use to view them and regret that some viewers are experiencing problems.
"The BBC continues to work closely with all the manufacturers."
Published 19.05.11
A move by the BBC to begin broadcasting some material on Freeview HD in 1080p (progressive) rather than the more usual 1080i (interlaced) mode has caused audio dropout problems on some TVs.
We were alerted to the problem by poster Hugh1 on our Forums, who has experienced intermittent sound on his 2010 Sony TV since the Beeb made a software upgrade to the encoder it uses for Freeview HD transmissions in March.
A similar complaint has arisen on Sony UK's Forum, where poster Chris has highlighted the same problem on his Sony KDL-EX503, and the BBC has received additional complaints.
Writing in his Research & Development blog, the BBC's Ant Miller provides an explanation of the changes made by the Beeb after the software upgrade on March 22-23.
"The Freeview HD platform has always been specified to provide a 1080p25 capability. This is why set-top boxes are mandated to have a 1080p50 output to enable seamless up-conversion to a mode which is guaranteed to be present in all display devices.
"A great deal of material is shot natively at 1080p25 and there are significant advantages in maintaining 1080p25 through to the viewer's display.
"Within a single programme interlaced may be used for moving credits, cross-fades and studio shots whereas progressive may be used for location shot material. Up until now this capability has not been exploited and 1080p25 material was encoded using a 1080i25 encoding mode.
"But after a software upgrade on the 22nd/23rd March the HD encoder supporting BBC HD on Freeview HD has been set-up to automatically detect progressive material and change encoding mode appropriately.
"The encoded bitstream can only change at each GOP boundary to ensure decoders maintain a consistent display. This means that each coded video sequence either contains interlaced or progressive picture struct values within the bitstream.
"The transitions between interlaced and progressive modes are entirely dependent upon how a programme has been made."
It is this auto-switching between progressive and interlaced modes that seems to be causing the audio dropout.
BBC viewers responding to Miller's blog have experienced picture and sound dropouts, particularly on some Sony TVs such as the KDL-40EX403 and KDL-37EX403, making some programmes "unwatchable".
Have you experienced this problem? If so, let us know in the comments box below.
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Comments
So BBC reckon they tested things with manufacturers, yet Sony, Panasonsic and Samsung have all had problems. This must be a big slice of the television sets.
Seems to be the BBC have been a little hasty about introducing this change.
Some more times:
7th June:
22:35:50, BBC 2
23:00:52, BBC 2
23:25:15, BBC 2, 1 sec
23:49:18, BBC 2, 0.5 Secs
01:45:55, BBC 2 1 sec
This may be a fault of my set-top box, TV, cable connections or the transmitter (NE36).
I forgot to say that the sound drop outs I get on my Panasonic TV and the connection is through Virgin cable not over the air.
I have a Samsung Led which has regular audio drop outs - have it connected to Sky Hd . Does anyone else have similar intermittent problem - but irritating issue. Are there any fixes out there
Some more times:
5th June, 2011:
00:23:00, BBC 2, 0.5 secs
01:02:40, Sky News, 1 sec
01:27:40, Sky News, 1 sec
01:52:35, Sky News, 1.5 secs
This sounds like a problem I have with the sound from my bargain-basement Freeview (non-HD) box (Logik LDR1 A), although I've had the problem for many months and not in conjunction with an HD TV. The problem first appeared maybe as long ago as late last year.
The funny thing is: for a day or two, a while back, when the sound dropped-out, it quickly returned after a fraction of a second, as if someone was aware of the problem and immediately solved it.
I’ve made a note of the most recent times:
3rd June:
00:53:xx Sky News, for about 1 sec.
01:58:45 BBC News Channel, during Evans Davis’ promo
02:56:xx BBC News Channel
This may simply be a fault of the set-top box.
davidrust, I don't think so, the issue is specifically to do with Freeview HD broadcasts and caused by switching between 1080i and 1080p material.
I'm getting audio drop off on normal SD freeview on my Sony KDL-40X3500, could anything they are doing be causing this?
Sony support forum now says a firmware update is coming soon.
I'm going to chase Sony today to see if there's any further news on a fix.
Monday 30th - Queen, Days of Our Lives, Tues 31st - Lead Ballon, frequent sound dropouts all through the programmes. It is very annoying & its getting worse !
How interesting as the Panasonic 2010 models such as the G20Bs do not decode the 5:1 sound on Freeview. When CS were asked, they blame the BBC for giving them the wrong specs. I wonder what TVs they are referring to for correct operation of Freeview HD 5:1 sound.
It also interesting that some of these 2010 Freeview HD TVs got 5 stars even though the did not decode the 5:1 sound. The Freesat ones do.
Regards
s
First noticed dropout on our SONY 37EX503 on Gardners World, which got so irritating that we switch to steam Beeb2. It must be the mixed editing between 1080i/p. So, how will the software upgrade be achieved? Otherwise great a great TV, if only I could stop the SONY bong on boot-up.......
I'm on Freesat and my Samsung TV doesn't support 1080p so watch on 720p - guess I'm not affected then.
Will the audio dropouts still occur for these FreeviewHD people even if they are watching on 1080i or 720p, as the original signal is still 1080p/i ?
Spoke too sooon - back to snafu.
It was just one programme that was not so bad the fault is still ongoing
I think the way to deal with this problem is to
A) make sure to keep telling your dealer the set is not working on BBC HD
B) get the message out to other forums that Sony TV's suck on BBC HD freeview
It really is the dealers problem if the set does not work and it is up to the dealer to deal with Sony
If the set was bought using a credit card then section 75 protection may apply to the sale
I haven't watch that much recently. Thought it was my ears or poor signal quality as I only get 70% compared to 100% on SD channels.
Another thing: the subtitles just flash on & off on both BBC HD channels i.e, blink. Could this be a related problem?
I have a Sony 40EX503 about 1 year old.
Freesat appears unaffected - this is a Freeview HD broadcast issue
Excuse my ignorance but what's the situation with Freesat?
Things seem to have settled down now - not so many switches and sound glitches.
No fw update from Sony have the BBC "turned things down" a little?
I have a Sony 32" EX 503 and I have also noticed the "sound dropout" issue whilst watching the BBC HD channel. Could not say for sure though wether this was on 1080i or 1080p broadcasts. Hope this gets fixed soon.
Its an anoying problem, but lets give the BBC some credit. At least they are trying / looking at ways to increase quality. Its obviously a teething / technical problem, if its mostly with Sony T.V's.
Hopefully it will be sorted soon.
"
I'm afraid both the BBC and Sony have been nothing short of contemptuous of postings for people like me who actually pay for the product.
I wonder how Sony justify retailing Freeview HD products that they know are faulty, and have done so for two months now?"
Well said on both points
All I can say is that the interoperability tests couldn't have amounted to much or if they did the results were ignored. If Sony said there were problems, what were the BBC doing in proceeding?
Thanks What HiFi for getting this out into the open.
I'm afraid both the BBC and Sony have been nothing short of contemptuous of postings for people like me who actually pay for the product.
I wonder how Sony justify retailing Freeview HD products that they know are faulty, and have done so for two months now?
I've noticed the sound drop out on my KDL40EX603 coincides with the picture switching between 1080i and 1080p
What a mess for weeks the BBC said it was Sonys problem, Sony said at first there was no problem then said the BBC "was just testing", then Sony say we are working on a fix but have no fix date. All this time set users have to put up with the problem... nice
Sony have put out at least 2 firmware updates since the problem first showed itself. Did the updates solve the problem no.
All in all a very poor show from both Sony and the BBC
I have picture blackouts lasting 1-2 seconds on my Toshiba WL768 TV while watching BBC HD. Other HD channels are fine. I believe this is a related issue.
I too get sound drop outs and my tv is a Panasonic TH42 PX70.
Not sure exactly how often they're broadcasting 1080p material, but yes, they are using it within certain programmes and particularly for location shot scenes.