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BigColz's picture
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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

I was going to post this back on my thread but seeing as were all talking about power related stuff.. I got this e-mail from Clearer Audio which may have some points you don't already know or perhaps solidify some..

 

Hi Matthew   Thank you for your email. My sincere apologies for the delay in replying; we have had problems with our email system so are behind on replying due to a backlog.   There are many forms of interference which span the whole Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) spectrum. The noise can be airborne (such as radio frequency interference, wi-fi etc) or conducted to a system through the mains (i.e., noise that is already on the ring main; noise can be feed into the circuit by noisy white goods or be external to your property). Such powerline adaptors which feed data through the house wiring are normally best avoided when a hi-end hi-fi system is on the same circuit. You can fit a dedicated consumer unit and circuit for your hi-fi to help isolate it.   For your system the Copper-line or Silver-line Power-HUBs would work best. They have passive Super Suppressor ferrite rings which deal with a wide range of noise and are highly effective at dealing with radio frequency interference. In this respect they will certainly help with any noise that might be on the mains line as well as providing the superior power solution with improved high performance shielding cabling, star wiring and high quality un-switched sockets etc. The Gatekeeper Surge Protection will also help to protect your system against surges and transients (across all three channels - live-neutral, live-earth and neutral-earth). What the HUBs do not do is condition the power (i.e., actively filter it) since we aim to provide a high quality power supply solution without active conditioning which we feel can restrict system dynamics. Moving up to Silver-line the main difference is the Silver-line Power Cable feeding it and the Silver-line internal cable plus Super Suppressors on each socket which minimise component interactions (i.e., noise feedback from one component affecting another).   I hope that this helps and I have answered your questions. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any further questions or queries.   Thank you for your interest in our products.   Kind regards,   Darren Smith  

Clearer Audio

 

 

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

BigColz wrote:

I was going to post this back on my thread but seeing as were all talking about power related stuff.. I got this e-mail from Clearer Audio which may have some points you don't already know or perhaps solidify some..

In my conversation with Darren, we covered everthing I could think of (constuction, socket quality, EMI/RFI rejection, surge protection and it's effect on sound quality, wall sockets, differences the different types of wiring have etc etc), which also included products that aren't on his website. He is starting to produce blocks with Furutech sockets and Optimus occ silver wired.


"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

Cno..I've done some "experiment"  for quite sometime with my prevoius system up to present. With amps it's best to plug them straight to wall sockets esp. class a amp.:)

Main system: MF AMS 35i / Focal 1028be / Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP / MIT cables

Bedroom: Laptop(Qobuz) / Chord gem / Rega Brio-r / KEF ls50 / TQ black / Sennheiser momentum

 

 

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

iceman16 wrote:

Cno..I've done some "experiment"  for quite sometime with my prevoius system up to present. With amps it's best to plug them straight to wall sockets esp. class a amp.:)

I agree, but I want some surge protection and so am looking for a well made block that doesn't restrict the current, upset the sound, all while giving peace of mind.

The Clearer Audio block gives protection up to 6500 amps, and their Gatekeeper system is not suposed to interfere with SQ.

I also believe gains can be had with well made switchless sockets from MK, Wandsworth or better still Furutech.....I'm toying with trying it.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

CnoEvil wrote:

iceman16 wrote:

Cno..I've done some "experiment"  for quite sometime with my prevoius system up to present. With amps it's best to plug them straight to wall sockets esp. class a amp.:)

I agree, but I want some surge protection and so am looking for a well made block that doesn't restrict the current, upset the sound, all while giving peace of mind.

The Clearer Audio block gives protection up to 6500 amps, and their Gatekeeper system is not suposed to interfere with SQ.

I also believe gains can be had with well made switchless sockets from MK, Wandsworth or better still Furutech.....I'm toying with trying it.

Funny enough Cno, the dealer that came out to me last week mentioned about having a furutech wall socket fitted.  He swore by them and claimed they made a noticeable improvement in SQ.

Btw, just plugged my amp straight into the wall and amp in mains block.

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack.

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

CnoEvil wrote:

iceman16 wrote:

Cno..I've done some "experiment"  for quite sometime with my prevoius system up to present. With amps it's best to plug them straight to wall sockets esp. class a amp.:)

I agree, but I want some surge protection and so am looking for a well made block that doesn't restrict the current, upset the sound, all while giving peace of mind.

The Clearer Audio block gives protection up to 6500 amps, and their Gatekeeper system is not suposed to interfere with SQ.

I also believe gains can be had with well made switchless sockets from MK, Wandsworth or better still Furutech.....I'm toying with trying it.

Have you thought about having surge protection installed at your main distribution board? At least that way you could tick it off the list of features for prospective power boards. Also has the added advantage of protecting your whole house, not just your hi-fi equipment.

My dealer strongly recommended having the AMS gear plugged directly in the wall, and if possible on its own circuit. He said that he had one customer who went so far as to install a 32amp rated circuit & wired the mains lead directly onto the power circuit, ie. no wall outlet! Quite illegal! I don't think that this was with AMS gear but bigger mono block amps, not sure what brand.

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

Neuphonix wrote:

Have you thought about having surge protection installed at your main distribution board? At least that way you could tick it off the list of features for prospective power boards. Also has the added advantage of protecting your whole house, not just your hi-fi equipment.

My dealer strongly recommended having the AMS gear plugged directly in the wall, and if possible on its own circuit. He said that he had one customer who went so far as to install a 32amp rated circuit & wired the mains lead directly onto the power circuit, ie. no wall outlet! Quite illegal! I don't think that this was with AMS gear but bigger mono block amps, not sure what brand.

Hi there, and how are you getting on??

What you say makes great sense, though my house is  a bl**dy nightmare for adding a dedicated circuit. I will check out surge protection at the main distribution board,

 

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

Well thanks mate, trust you are also. Glad to hear your back is on the mend Smile

We are having a long weekend over here for Australia Day, so hopefully lots of music & relaxing.

Am starting to rip my CD collection, finally have some sort of process in place regarding file type / tagging / artwork etc. Pretty daunting task!

I wasn't necessarily suggesting the dedicated circuit thing agin, just that a surge arrestor in your board might be worth looking at. There are differnt varieties & obviously you need a professional to install. Just that if you were looking at the Atlas & had some reservations simply because it didn't have surge features, this might be an option to cover both apsects.

BTW I recently bought an album of the Linn site, The Avison Ensemble: Arcangelo Corelli Opus 6 Concerti Grossi, came across it thought their free Christmas tracks. Wow! Simply amazing (went for the 24bit version, shhh :shhh:) Have you heard it yet?

I still can't quite wrap my head around Jazz music. Have always had a appreciation of classical music (did some study when I was much younger), but albums like this will definitely bring me around.

Any recommendations along this vein? Chamber music?

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

Macspur wrote:

Funny enough Cno, the dealer that came out to me last week mentioned about having a furutech wall socket fitted.  He swore by them and claimed they made a noticeable improvement in SQ.

Btw, just plugged my amp straight into the wall and amp in mains block.

Mac

If your block is "daisy chain" wired, all the components plugged into it, take power from each other.......it needs to be star wired / earthed. Your amp needs no restriction on the power it gets, so plugging into the wall may be better.

 

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

My Primo & 35P both plug directly into the wall socket on a dedicated circuit.

All my other gear hangs of another dedicated circuit with a four way wall outlet. The AV reciever & TV plug directly into this. I then have a 10way power rail with inbuilt 10amp breaker which my subs & all other source / periphery items plug into. This is a rail meant to be installed in a data cabinet. I haven't open this particular one but have opened other ones through work. Pretty sure that the are wired in daisy chain configuration, so the outlet are not isolated from each other.

I am considering buying one of these Thor PS10 power station:

http://thortechnologies.com.au/products/product/ps10-smart-power-station

It is a conditioner so recent discussion has made me hold off for the time being. I'd say my dealer would let me have one for a demo if I asked him. To be honest I don't really expect it to make much different to the SQ, I'm looking at it from a protection / clean power perspective.

Still waiting on my leads for the crossover to arrive. Was hoping to have them for this weekend to experiment with, but apparently they are arring on Tuesday.

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

Another interesting Saturday morning, we found another great shop where we could compare at the same time the Atlas Mavros, the Cardas Golden Cross (the Clear Light were out on demo), the Kimber, the Purist Audio and a swedish company called Jorma.

We came back home with 3 sets of cables and interconnects to try...it was an eye-opening experience 

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

acalex wrote:

Another interesting Saturday morning, we found another great shop where we could compare at the same time the Atlas Mavros, the Cardas Golden Cross (the Clear Light were out on demo), the Kimber, the Purist Audio and a swedish company called Jorma.

We came back home with 3 sets of cables and interconnects to try...it was an eye-opening experience 

Well, well..........a little more detail would be nice. 

With the Cardas GC, Rob will get to hear roughly how they match the 35i.....it will be interesting to see if he agrees with me. They may be too warm for your system; but if you like what they do, the GR is more neutral, with the Clear Light being more neutral again. What did the dealer have to say about them.

The Mavros should work on both systems, but maybe not as good as the TQ on yours.........this is all just me thinking aloud, and could be completely wrong.

I look forward to how your league table now looks, and how it might differ from that of Rob.

 

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Another interesting Saturday morning, we found another great shop where we could compare at the same time the Atlas Mavros, the Cardas Golden Cross (the Clear Light were out on demo), the Kimber, the Purist Audio and a swedish company called Jorma.

We came back home with 3 sets of cables and interconnects to try...it was an eye-opening experience 

Well, well..........a little more detail would be nice. 

With the Cardas GC, Rob will get to hear roughly how they match the 35i.....it will be interesting to see if he agrees with me. They may be too warm for your system; but if you like what they do, the GR is more neutral, with the Clear Light being more neutral again. What did the dealer have to say about them.

The Mavros should work on both systems, but maybe not as good as the TQ on yours.........this is all just me thinking aloud, and could be completely wrong.

I look forward to how your league table now looks, and how it might differ from that of Rob.

 

Well, at the shop we spent a few hours swapping cables...and the clear winner was the Jorma n. 2 followed by the Purist Audio, the Macros, the Golden Cross and the Kimber in the end. The gap was something like this

- Jorma = 100%

- Purist Audio = 95%

- Mavros = 80%

- Golden Cross = 50%

- Kimber = 35%

This is just my personal league table, not sure how rob see things. But I think the first two were pretty close with the Jorma being better (and more expensive also) and more transparent. It is really a neutral cable. The Purist was also very transparent but a bitt less neutral but a bit more musical than the Jorma.

The Mavros is a nice cable...just could not stand the comparison with the other 2. Had the impression is very fast but lack a bit the transparency of the other 2 and the musicality of the Purist. GC for me was quite disappointing being a bit slow and too smoth (at least in the system we tried). The kimber was quite a disaster...I had to stop listening when increasing the volume as it was really unnatural and just harsh, completely unbalanced. 

 

 

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

acalex wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Another interesting Saturday morning, we found another great shop where we could compare at the same time the Atlas Mavros, the Cardas Golden Cross (the Clear Light were out on demo), the Kimber, the Purist Audio and a swedish company called Jorma.

We came back home with 3 sets of cables and interconnects to try...it was an eye-opening experience 

Well, well..........a little more detail would be nice. 

With the Cardas GC, Rob will get to hear roughly how they match the 35i.....it will be interesting to see if he agrees with me. They may be too warm for your system; but if you like what they do, the GR is more neutral, with the Clear Light being more neutral again. What did the dealer have to say about them.

The Mavros should work on both systems, but maybe not as good as the TQ on yours.........this is all just me thinking aloud, and could be completely wrong.

I look forward to how your league table now looks, and how it might differ from that of Rob.

 

Well, at the shop we spent a few hours swapping cables...and the clear winner was the Jorma n. 2 followed by the Purist Audio, the Macros, the Golden Cross and the Kimber in the end. The gap was something like this

- Jorma = 100%

- Purist Audio = 95%

- Mavros = 80%

- Golden Cross = 50%

- Kimber = 35%

This is just my personal league table, not sure how rob see things. But I think the first two were pretty close with the Jorma being better (and more expensive also) and more transparent. It is really a neutral cable. The Purist was also very transparent but a bitt less neutral but a bit more musical than the Jorma.

The Mavros is a nice cable...just could not stand the comparison with the other 2. Had the impression is very fast but lack a bit the transparency of the other 2 and the musicality of the Purist. GC for me was quite disappointing being a bit slow and too smoth (at least in the system we tried). The kimber was quite a disaster...I had to stop listening when increasing the volume as it was really unnatural and just harsh, completely unbalanced. 

 

 

and where do the Siltech and TQ stand now?

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack.

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RE: New amplifier: my long journey...

Macspur wrote:

acalex wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Another interesting Saturday morning, we found another great shop where we could compare at the same time the Atlas Mavros, the Cardas Golden Cross (the Clear Light were out on demo), the Kimber, the Purist Audio and a swedish company called Jorma.

We came back home with 3 sets of cables and interconnects to try...it was an eye-opening experience 

Well, well..........a little more detail would be nice. 

With the Cardas GC, Rob will get to hear roughly how they match the 35i.....it will be interesting to see if he agrees with me. They may be too warm for your system; but if you like what they do, the GR is more neutral, with the Clear Light being more neutral again. What did the dealer have to say about them.

The Mavros should work on both systems, but maybe not as good as the TQ on yours.........this is all just me thinking aloud, and could be completely wrong.

I look forward to how your league table now looks, and how it might differ from that of Rob.

 

Well, at the shop we spent a few hours swapping cables...and the clear winner was the Jorma n. 2 followed by the Purist Audio, the Macros, the Golden Cross and the Kimber in the end. The gap was something like this

- Jorma = 100%

- Purist Audio = 95%

- Mavros = 80%

- Golden Cross = 50%

- Kimber = 35%

This is just my personal league table, not sure how rob see things. But I think the first two were pretty close with the Jorma being better (and more expensive also) and more transparent. It is really a neutral cable. The Purist was also very transparent but a bitt less neutral but a bit more musical than the Jorma.

The Mavros is a nice cable...just could not stand the comparison with the other 2. Had the impression is very fast but lack a bit the transparency of the other 2 and the musicality of the Purist. GC for me was quite disappointing being a bit slow and too smoth (at least in the system we tried). The kimber was quite a disaster...I had to stop listening when increasing the volume as it was really unnatural and just harsh, completely unbalanced. 

 

 

and where do the Siltech and TQ stand now?

Mac

Not idea yet as we didn't have the 2 cables in the shop...the first 3 are home with us now...

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