My room is far from ideal. Speakers across a space only 4mx6m. It would sound much better down the room but is not an option. Many recommended smaller standmounts but I much prefer a floorstander. I beleive the big problem with the layout and room size is room acoustics. Maybe more important than tweaking elctronics or even choice of speaker. My many ramblings elude to the way in which modest room treatment and careful eq can transform a muddy sound into clarity. If I could, and I cant, I would treat the room more heavily and maybe invest in an antimode. Till then, I remain satisfied with equipment and setup which is great in my lounge.
Yamaha V2065. MS Mezzo 5.1 Panasonic 42. Sony BD. Garrard 86SB. WD Live TV. SkyHD.
I am happy with how my set up sounds but am interested in room treatment. I have now seen your pics and can say your system is looking good. Those bass traps are very discrete good job! My DIY skills are very poor so if I decided to go for treatment I'd have to buy it. At the moment my speakers fire down the 5m length and the side wall is bare so maybe a panel may help here? Generally my room is good I think, with curtains, material sofas and a half inch thick shag pile carpet. Half the problem is getting round the other half. Originally I was suppose to get a style speaker system but I eventually got round her so who knows.
I just love my EDITED pile carpet.
I can recommend GIK acoustics for advice and products but also for little money as I suggested in threads to throw some rockwool into corners ro access the benefits. OH may also hear the benefit. Cheers
o what do i buy de rx2's or the rx6????
is the rx6 good enough to use without a sub?
From one who knows what little he knows I would say rx6's with a view to adding a sub for movies sometime. I kinda think films will always need a sub whilst music sounds best with full frequency boxes without a sub. Good luck
+1 robin. My turn ha! I would also prefer RX6 over RX2 I think. I prefer stereo with just speakers but movies definitely need a sub!
Movies don't need big floorstanders, but they're beneficial for music - although the standmount vs floorstander for music argument is one that will rage on forever. Bass will be more manageable from a standmount, and the only benefit from a floorstander for movies is SPL (if it uses extra drivers). While larger speakers are generally more efficient that smaller ones, larger ones usually need more control from the amplifier, so as you're using the RX series, I'd recommend standmounts.
Whether you prefer the RXFX or another pair of RX1's for the rear is another personal preference. The RX1 will give you direct sound, like the fronts. This is representative of what you would hear in the mixing studio - they need a precise soundfield in order to place effects. The RXFX will diffuse the sound, which is more representative of a cinema, which uses multiple rear speakers along the side walls.
DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry - official participants in Record Store Day, Saturday 18th April 2015.
"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"
FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:Bass will be more manageable from a standmount, and the only benefit from a floorstander for movies is SPL
Bass will be more manageable from a standmount, and the only benefit from a floorstander for movies is SPL
As always hanging on yr every word. If u have a moment, this sunny morning, I would welcome elaboration of these comments.
FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:Bass will be more manageable from a standmount, and the only benefit from a floorstander for movies is SPL As always hanging on yr every word. If u have a moment, this sunny morning, I would welcome elaboration of these comments.Cheers
Firstly, SPL. We know that more drivers means higher SPL, so a floorstander will usually play louder than a standmount speaker - s standmount will usually be a two-way, comprising of a mid/bass driver and a treble unit. There aren't too many three-way standmounts around, the KEF R300 being the cheapest one I can recall right now. Floorstanders have the cabinet space to utilise more drivers, so you will find more three-way - and even four-way - floorstanders. These will obviously play louder, and will normally be more efficient too, so don't need as much power to drive, but as I say, they do need the benefit of a better controlled amplifier.
When I mentioned earlier about the standmount vs floorstander argument, many people will prefer the simpler design of a two-way standmount speaker to an overly complicated floorstander that might be a three or four-way design. With a two-way design, the drive units are quite close together, whereas with a larger floorstander that might have a number of drive units (maybe four or more) spread over a wider area - some speakers can have drive units as far apart as 1 metre - which can introduce many negative effects which can be detectable by the human ear. In short, the end result of treble/mid/bass can end up sounding detached, and lacking the focus of the smaller standmount.
Managable bass. As we know, standmount speakers generally don't reach as low as floorstanders. Small standmounts will probably reach around 70-80Hz (usefully), larger ones maybe 60Hz, but floorstanders will be able to reach down to around 40-50Hz (usefully). By "usefully", I mean that any ratings measured at -6dB aren't going to be of any concern, as -6dB is not only half as loud as all the other frequencies you're listening to, but they're half as loud again, and obviously, not much use to anyone.
The most predictable speakers in any room are small, sealed standmount/satellite speakers. Obviously with no port to worry about, there is very little interaction with the room boundaries, so you can place this type of speaker in almost any room and get very similar results. Problems will start to kick in with ported speakers. The port WILL interact with room boundaries, so more careful placement is needed. If the speaker can be pulled clear enough from the room boundary for it not to be an issue, great, but that's not usually possible. The other issue here is that if you pull a ported speaker far enough way from a wall for the room boundary for it not to make any impact on the sound, you have then removed part of the design that makes the speaker sound the way it should - it needs the room boundary to some extent to sound the way it was designed. Manufacturers provide foam bungs to place in the ports to stifle the air flow when they're placed near a wall, but this problem you'll have here is that this will make a ported speaker sound like a sealed speaker. The bass driver in the ported speaker has been chosen specifically for a ported design based on its natural characteristics, and has been optimised to work in that design using the crossover. If you then "bung up" the speaker and make it behave like a sealed one, you've then changed what you're asking the speaker to do, and it won't sound the same. I usually find ported speakers sound lifeless when they're bunged. Some manufacturers may provide a two part bung - one where you can take out the centre of the bung. This will have the desired effect of calming down the port's air flow, but it won't fully stop it, so the speaker still sounds the way it was meant to. Anyone currently using a full bung, I would recommending getting hold of a two-part bung to try out, or make your own if you can.
Floorstanders, which are more than likely going to be ported, excite far more room modes than standmounts. Most bass issues are going to be under about 70Hz - the area that will usually be dealt with by the subwoofer, if you follow THX guidelines. As an example, our AV demo room has a massive dip around 50Hz (not too dissimilar to my own room), and two large peaks either side of it, so around 40 and 60Hz. People who like to use floorstanders will usually have this area covered by the floorstander, and bring the sub in around 30/40Hz (depending on the capabilities of the speaker). This will also apply to people with larger floorstanders who rely on the receiver's inbuilt room EQ, as bigger speakers are sometimes crossed over around the 40Hz mark, which is an are that most AV receivers don't apply EQ to.
So using smaller standmounts with a crossover point of 80Hz, and allowing the sub to fill in everything below, allows the user to use a sub EQ system that will remove most room issues by only needing to apply EQ to one speaker - the sub. The rest of the speakers can then be allowed to do what they're supposed to do, without being messed with.
From here there's the whole argument about room correction, which I won't go into, but the first thing to do is to get the flattest response from the speaker package before asking the room EQ to mess with the signal. Obviously, the less you mess with a signal the better.
David - I am most grateful for a very full and detailed explaination. I am sure this kind of information would benefit many but unfortunately there seems to be no 'sticky threads' or such. MODS - can we have sum o dem stickies?
Thanks again David
No problem Rob
the decision is made,
it wil be the rx6 as fronts, the rx1's as rears, the rx center en a BK XXLS400 sub and later this year a new amp to replace my pioneer vsx-920
thanks guys for al the help