the new Sony is looking good for gamers oldboy. One review says 7ms lag!
I'm not convinced that reading is accurate. (It would be impossible on an LED TV.) Can you link to the review? I'm interested to read how they measured lag.
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
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i know what you mean, that's why I'm looking forward to other reviews, try this thread, the link is at the bottom
Where is strapped?? I presume he has seen the review of the F8500...wondering if it has influenced his decision?
I'm still here mate; though I bought another TV already.
The F8500 is an excellent TV; it's just that Panasonic has moved things on again this year.
I presume you went with a Panny plasma then strapped?? Which model did you get in the end and are you happy with it so far??
I just hope you get no issues from your new tv and get years of hassle free viewing mate
Samsung UE55F8000 (THX Pro calibrated), Yamaha RX-A2020, Dali Zensor 5 7.1 (front presence config), Panasonic DMP-BDT500MR, WD TV Live, Marantz CD6003, Marantz PM6004, Beresford TC-7220 MKII, PS3, Xbox 360, QED Silver Anniversary XT speaker cable, Wireworld Chroma 7 HDMIs, Chord Crimson Sub and RCA, Chord Superscreen Mains Cable
I went VT65. I cost me £700 more than the GT50, but it's a noticeably better TV. The picture is superior in many regards and, while there are a few minor hiccups (50Hz motion is improved if still not flawlessly smooth), there are no issues that prove overtly distracting.
Overall I'm a great deal happier. Assuming no issues develop, this is my TV for the next four-to-five years.
For anyone interested, here's a letter from HDTV Shootout organiser Robert Zohn, detailing the results of this year's event. It made some sense to post the results in this thread, since the winner will perhaps surprise a few readers. The decision was far from unanimous, though, with a split between calibrators and enthusiasts more generally. Read on...
Here are the 2013 Flat Panel Shootout Evaluation final results based on the votes of the attendees and our panel of experts. This year it's been a difficult task to declare a winner. Here's why: The results came out so close that it is difficult to award one winner. The ZT60 won the popular vote in important categories, black and overall pq, but the F8500 has the highest scores overall and also won in important categories, like contrast ratio and day modes. In the past nine years it has always been very clear who won our Flat Panel Shootout event. The attendees liked the higher light output of the F8500, so when tabulating the ballots the F8500 is the winner. They saw the F8500 as even sharper, which I would assume is also because of the brighter image in low and high ambient light conditions. Many participants told me the F8500 whites looked cleaner, brighter and in their opinion, whiter. So the public has spoken and we therefore crown Samsung’s F8500 series PDP the new "King of HDTV" for 2013. We also recognize and congratulate all of the development engineers at Samsung for making the most significant advancement in PDP technology this year. Please also take note that the panel of experts selected the VT60/ZT60 as their personal choice. But even their choice was only a slight preference. As DeWayne put it to me.... “To me and just for example, if the VT60 is a 10 the F8500 is a 9 as I don’t care about panel brightness above 30fL” However, we strongly recommend all consumers to use the same logic that the three expert panelists explained during our closing Q&A: end users should make their buying decision based on viewing habits. The three top contenders are all so very close this year that I don't see a clear winner and these three panels deserve our top recommendation equally. In fact, all of the 2013 displays in our event this year are exceptional and have made significant advancements in picture quality, build quality and design. So my sincerest congratulations to Sony, Panasonic and Samsung for stepping up the game on PDP and LED display technology advancements. Very respectfully submitted, Robert Zohn
I'm not sure how they can compare the Samsung F8500 with Panasonic ZT60. Which screen did they use? 51-inch or 64-inch? Bigger screens always look more attractive. Maybe they should have compared the Samsung with similar sized VT65.
I will probably go to the Walsall shootout where they're comparing calibrated Kuro 600M, Samsung F8500 & Panasonic ZT60 (although I realise that the organiser is TPS who only sells Panasonic, creating a conflict of interest). Will report back.
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Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
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The fact remains though; these TVs run close in performance. You're only going to have 1 TV in your room. So I don't think any of these TVs will make you less happy.
I'm going to the Leicester event next weekend. Likewise, I'll let you know what I think.
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Here are the 2013 Flat Panel Shootout Evaluation final results based on the votes of the attendees and our panel of experts. This year it's been a difficult task to declare a winner. Here's why: The results came out so close that it is difficult to award one winner. The ZT60 won the popular vote in important categories, black and overall pq, but the F8500 has the highest scores overall and also won in important categories, like contrast ratio and day modes. In the past nine years it has always been very clear who won our Flat Panel Shootout event. The attendees liked the higher light output of the F8500, so when tabulating the ballots the F8500 is the winner. They saw the F8500 as even sharper, which I would assume is also because of the brighter image in low and high ambient light conditions. Many participants told me the F8500 whites looked cleaner, brighter and in their opinion, whiter. So the public has spoken and we therefore crown Samsung’s F8500 series PDP the new "King of HDTV" for 2013.
Many thanks to strapped for cash for mentioning the shootout between the Samsung F8500, the Panasonic ZT60 and the Panasonic VT60. Bigboss asks about screen sizes. I think that this is the link to the American site that did the shootout
And if you go to the third (HDTV scores) page, it does mention the various sizes used - Pansonic TC-P65ZT60, Samsung PN64F8500 and Panasonic TC-P65VT60, so pretty much identical sizes. I found it very useful to read all three pages, but I was extremely surprised to read (in the middle of page 2, just above the photographs of the three calibrators and the host Mr Zohn) that contrary to what I've been reading in nearly every other review of the 2013 Panasonic plasmas, or of the 2012 and 2011 Panasonic plasmas for that matter, that "Afterward, I stood a couple of feet from the sets and examined the screensaver from the Oppo Blu-ray player used in the tests; those familiar with the Oppo players know they use a bright white Oppo logo dancing on a dark black background. From that alone, it was clear we still have a ways to go to get a plasma that's equal to the Kuro, at least on black levels." They don't specify the Kuro model number, but do say that it was a last generation monitor. Well, what a shock! Kuro still rules on black level alone, according to this shootout. I was fully expecting the top-end 2013 Panasonics to have deeper black levels, but it seems not. I'd be very interested to hear what bigboss and anyone else who attends the Wallsall event in 11 days thinks. (I'm still hoping to get a Panasonic 65VT65 later this year though!)
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I'm going to the Leicester event on Sunday, so I'll report back.
I spent half an hour with the F8500 today and I was very impressed. It beats the latest Panasonics in some areas, but can't quite match the VT65 for black level.
Subjectively assessed, I found the F8500 more capable in terms of motion. (Panasonics resolve more detail during camera pans, but there's a fluidity to the Samsung's 50Hz images that arguably all Panasonics lack).
There's also a precision to the F8500's images that's appealing. The ZT65 bests the F8500 in terms of black level, but the differences between the two seemed very small, admittedly under shop lighting. (I switched both TV's out of Dynamic mode and into THX/Movie mode respectively).
I left the store wondering if I'm a Samsung man after all. If you rarely watch TV in a dark room, there's a very strong case for buying the Samsung.
No, no, no don't confuse me, man! I'm supposed to be set on the Panasonic 65VT65, not the Samsung PS64F8500! Among other things, I don't like the funny Samsung stand, especially as I'll be wanting to place a centre speaker. Yet, I'm very interested in what you and bigboss think after the Leicester and Walsall shows. I certainly want a new TV with better black level than my existing Samsung PS64D8000 from two generations ago. But the new machine may do that.
But very importantly before I forget strapped for cash, could you or bigboss please check that the Samsung F8500 doesn't have brightness pops, that is, when the background black level changes abruptly? I keep reading in reviews of Samsung plasmas that the reviewer saw no evidence of brightness pops. That may be because they''ve not been using the correct material that would show the brightness pops! If you or bigboss have the Blu-Ray of Blade Runner, the fault, if latent, will become quite obvious. I have the Director's Cut version of the disc. and very close to the start, from about 30 seconds elapsed to two minutes elapsed, the names of the writers, directors and actors fade in and out during the opening credits. In a darkened room, the brightness pops as the names fade in and out are very obvious. Only the Samsung of my plasmas does that, even my much-maligned LG in the kitchen does not. So if you could check that, I would be very grateful. I might be able to overlook basic black levels not quite as deep as Panasonic's, or that dratted bulging out stand, but if the F8500 has brightness pops that would be a deal-breaker for me.
But very importantly before I forget strapped for cash, could you or bigboss please check that the Samsung F8500 doesn't have brightness pops, that is, when the background black level changes abruptly?
Like past generations of Samsung plasma, the F8500 suffers from brightness pops, and according to many owners a faint horizontal band toward the top of the screen. The brightness pops are reportedly very mild and infrequent. I was looking specifically for this issue today, but I didn't see any pops during the 20-30 minutes I spent watching. (This isn't the same as saying the problem doesn't exist.)
On the other side of the equation, 50Hz motion is still a minor problem on latest generation Panasonics, with some dynamic false contouring. There are a few very minor uniformity issues, too, though nothing even approaching the problems I experienced with last year's sets.
I think these are all extremely minor issues that will only disturb the most unforgiving of videophiles. If pushed, I'm still not sure I can pick a winner this year. Perhaps I'll have a clearer sense after the event on Sunday.
But perhaps you might be just as undecided after Sunday!
Yes, I've got Blade Runner disc. Can you remind me to take it with me on 31st please? Will check it for you.
Thank you, bb. I will remind you! If the room is fairly dark (doesn't have to be pitch black) the brightness pops (if possible) will be obvious.
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