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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

I'm moving over here, so as not to disrupt the other thread.

Have you also mooched some Black Ravioli?

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

CnoEvil wrote:

I'm moving over here, so as not to disrupt the other thread.

Have you also mooched some Black Ravioli?

Not yet, next week. But I got a ps audio power plant 3 for demo Smile

Alex

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

Roby wrote:

Not yet, next week. But I got a ps audio power plant 3 for demo Smile

Alex

That's probably just as well, as assessing too many things can make it hard to know exactly where the changes are coming from.

You certainly have access to a right little toy shop.  :twisted:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

acalex wrote:

:O

Macspur wrote:

Ordered the Siltech G7 Classic anniversary 330 XLR's today and have a dealer coming over next Wed to demo some Siltech power chords and SC's.

From the brief conversation I had today with him, in his opinion, in terms of improving SQ, i.c's and power chords take priority over SC's... interesting.

Mac

Nice move Mac! Can't wait to read your impressions.

What I found out is that in my system the pc made almost no difference behind the amp (probably for other problems with the main as all my equipment is plugged into a commercial power strip) but it made a stunning difference behind the phono stage.

Regarding sc and ic I think they should be heard together as they need to complement themselves. I tried first the sc and the difference was already very meaningful especially at low volume. Then i nstalled the ic and it was another system...

Keep us posted!

Certainly will Alex.

Just hope the I.c's arrive before the guy turns up on Wednesday with the other gear!

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Audiolab M-DAC+, Sonos Connect, Accuphase E470, Harbeth 40th Anniversary SHL5 Plus, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack, matching LS stands.

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

CnoEvil wrote:

Roby wrote:

Not yet, next week. But I got a ps audio power plant 3 for demo Smile

Alex

That's probably just as well, as assessing too many things can make it hard to know exactly where the changes are coming from.

You certainly have access to a right little toy shop.  :twisted:

eh eh, you are right... That's why the ps won't be connected before I have assessed the cables first  Smile

Yes, now Francis is also an arcam dealer and he's ordering some nice stuff like the AVR360 Smile

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

BenLaw wrote:

acalex wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

I am giving Pulse X another shot as the founder of Vertere wrote me back an email saying it is impossible the Siltech sounds more transparent with better separation of instruments as in his opinion a system with Siltech cabling has almost not existing timing  :shifty:

He's stressing the fact that speakers need to be carefully positioned to hear the full potential of the cable as it will open a big "window". Unfortunately i am a bit limited in space...I have tried to bring the speakers a bit closer giving them more space around. It is indeed a better result as I feel the booming is strongly reduced. I still feel a slightly reduced dynamic compared to the Siltech...and it seems a thin veil has been placed on speakers. 

He said he will help me to improve the set-up once is back from a show in Las Vegas...let's see. In the meantime I have emailed Sonus Faber in order to get advice on how is best to position the speakers

Was this Touraj Moghaddam?..........and I take it that you informed them of how the test was going.

I think it is good they care enough to follow up.......and if you can get speaking to him, I would take advantage of it, as like John Carrick, he is very knowledgeable (but quite different). I spent an hour with him, and found it worthwhile.

I have to say.I was also very surprised at your findings, as it didn't match up with what I heard; but felt it wasn't appropriate for me to interfere with your verdict. It's one thing recommending cables, it's another telling you what to think.

If he thinks things aren't right, let him organize the dealer to come and oversee the test (and bring some Cardas with him  :shifty:)

 

Yes, was him! He wrote this to his manager who was in contact with me. He then forwarded the answer to me.

 

The Siltech Classic Anniversary 330L speaker cable is in no way has more clarity or separation. In fact the performance of the system with that is almost non existent of timing... This is partly due to incorrect harmonic structure and that in turn will impair ‘clarity’ & spatial definition. I have had quite a few encounters where we have done such experiments and the results have been ALWAYS the same. Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result! Almost everyone at show here who has been to listen has commented it is by far the best... The cables were almost all new! Even the other manufacturer/designers of the other components (TT, Amp & Speakers) couldn’t believe what was happening with their products. You know, better than probably anyone, how critical it is to set the system up with such a big ‘window’ when you use the Pulse...   I can talk with them and probably shine some light on where to focus on their system set-up if they give us more detail - Components in the system - Music used for listening - Description of their findings

 

 

Is that last paragraph the email you received? Ie that is what was written by Touraj Moghaddam?

yes, the part I put in bold and italic is Touraj's answer.

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

acalex wrote:

eh eh, you are right... That's why the ps won't be connected before I have assessed the cables first  Smile

Yes, now Francis is also an arcam dealer and he's ordering some nice stuff like the AVR360 Smile

Very nice....just be careful what you listen to though. The AVR600 is very, very good......but can be troublesome....though should have been sorted out at this stage. >)

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

acalex wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

acalex wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

I am giving Pulse X another shot as the founder of Vertere wrote me back an email saying it is impossible the Siltech sounds more transparent with better separation of instruments as in his opinion a system with Siltech cabling has almost not existing timing  :shifty:

He's stressing the fact that speakers need to be carefully positioned to hear the full potential of the cable as it will open a big "window". Unfortunately i am a bit limited in space...I have tried to bring the speakers a bit closer giving them more space around. It is indeed a better result as I feel the booming is strongly reduced. I still feel a slightly reduced dynamic compared to the Siltech...and it seems a thin veil has been placed on speakers. 

He said he will help me to improve the set-up once is back from a show in Las Vegas...let's see. In the meantime I have emailed Sonus Faber in order to get advice on how is best to position the speakers

Was this Touraj Moghaddam?..........and I take it that you informed them of how the test was going.

I think it is good they care enough to follow up.......and if you can get speaking to him, I would take advantage of it, as like John Carrick, he is very knowledgeable (but quite different). I spent an hour with him, and found it worthwhile.

I have to say.I was also very surprised at your findings, as it didn't match up with what I heard; but felt it wasn't appropriate for me to interfere with your verdict. It's one thing recommending cables, it's another telling you what to think.

If he thinks things aren't right, let him organize the dealer to come and oversee the test (and bring some Cardas with him  :shifty:)

 

Yes, was him! He wrote this to his manager who was in contact with me. He then forwarded the answer to me.

 

The Siltech Classic Anniversary 330L speaker cable is in no way has more clarity or separation. In fact the performance of the system with that is almost non existent of timing... This is partly due to incorrect harmonic structure and that in turn will impair ‘clarity’ & spatial definition. I have had quite a few encounters where we have done such experiments and the results have been ALWAYS the same. Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result! Almost everyone at show here who has been to listen has commented it is by far the best... The cables were almost all new! Even the other manufacturer/designers of the other components (TT, Amp & Speakers) couldn’t believe what was happening with their products. You know, better than probably anyone, how critical it is to set the system up with such a big ‘window’ when you use the Pulse...   I can talk with them and probably shine some light on where to focus on their system set-up if they give us more detail - Components in the system - Music used for listening - Description of their findings

 

 

Is that last paragraph the email you received? Ie that is what was written by Touraj Moghaddam?

yes, the part I put in bold and italic is Touraj's answer.

 

I don't understand what 'Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result!' means, does that make sense to you?

I am the danger. 

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

BenLaw wrote:

I don't understand what 'Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result!' means, does that make sense to you?

To be honest, the all answer is not very clear and this part is indeed the worst. I guess he was writing quickly on some kind of device from an hi-fi show, so not time to be more accurate..

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

acalex wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

I don't understand what 'Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result!' means, does that make sense to you?

To be honest, the all answer is not very clear and this part is indeed the worst. I guess he was writing quickly on some kind of device from an hi-fi show, so not time to be more accurate..

 

I'm glad it's not just me then! The word 'unintelligible' sprang to mind. 

 

Even so, it seems pretty poor form to slag off a rival manufacturer's product in such a blatant way. I have no idea what 'incorrect harmonic structure' could possibly mean, but my understanding of cable belief was that cables would be system dependent? (Like in the blind test Cno linked to.) So I assume you must all disagree with him when he says 'results are always the same', the siltech 'in no way has more clarity or separation' and it is 'almost non existent of timing'?

I am the danger. 

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

BenLaw wrote:

acalex wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

I don't understand what 'Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result!' means, does that make sense to you?

To be honest, the all answer is not very clear and this part is indeed the worst. I guess he was writing quickly on some kind of device from an hi-fi show, so not time to be more accurate..

 

I'm glad it's not just me then! The word 'unintelligible' sprang to mind. 

 

Even so, it seems pretty poor form to slag off a rival manufacturer's product in such a blatant way. I have no idea what 'incorrect harmonic structure' could possibly mean, but my understanding of cable belief was that cables would be system dependent? (Like in the blind test Cno linked to.) So I assume you must all disagree with him when he says 'results are always the same', the siltech 'in no way has more clarity or separation' and it is 'almost non existent of timing'?

It is indeed quite poor reaction and that would be enough usually to make we walk away as I don't like this form of marketing. He probably didn't mean to send this email to me as this part was the content of a mail forwarded to me by his operational manager. 

But they allowed to keep me the cables a bit more so I kept an open mind and re-connected the cable. I did also a little bit of speaker re-positioning but unfortunately the space around the living room is very limited. 

Lets see how it goes and if they get I touch again next week as promised. For now I have tellurium q ultra black at home to try.

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

I think we've discussed your room setup and acoustics before, and I know you're not keen on my words of caution re cables, but IMO it would be sensible to sort out positioning and any room treatment that might be possible (even if both of these are limited) before you spend large sums of money on fancy tone controls which may not have an appropriate effect when you change some of these things in future.

 

Anyway, I'll leave it there for now  Smile

I am the danger. 

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

BenLaw wrote:

acalex wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

I don't understand what 'Their system cannot possibly be revealing enough the way it is setup as they have had to leave the system to get even a reasonably good result!' means, does that make sense to you?

To be honest, the all answer is not very clear and this part is indeed the worst. I guess he was writing quickly on some kind of device from an hi-fi show, so not time to be more accurate..

 

I'm glad it's not just me then! The word 'unintelligible' sprang to mind. 

 

Even so, it seems pretty poor form to slag off a rival manufacturer's product in such a blatant way. I have no idea what 'incorrect harmonic structure' could possibly mean, but my understanding of cable belief was that cables would be system dependent? (Like in the blind test Cno linked to.) So I assume you must all disagree with him when he says 'results are always the same', the siltech 'in no way has more clarity or separation' and it is 'almost non existent of timing'?

Must admit, was a bit uncomfortable myself when I read that... anyone who slights another manufacturer like that, I would personally have question marks against!

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Audiolab M-DAC+, Sonos Connect, Accuphase E470, Harbeth 40th Anniversary SHL5 Plus, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack, matching LS stands.

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

When I met Touraj, he was knowledgeable and interesting but quite forthright.....but he certainly didn't slag off the opposition, as imo he felt his product could stand on its own merit - and from what I heard, he was right.

I am not really trying to defend what he said, but like a few leading lights in the industry, he can probably come across as a little arrogant (Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note springs to mind). IMO. This springs from a feeling that they are right, and like some great surgeons, are brilliant but a bit blunt.

I also would be surprised if that email was ever meant for a potential customer's eyes, as it was his thoughts about the situation to his agent.

I have a strong suspicion that he knows exactly what he is talking about (even if we don't), and it will be worth seeing if he comes up with something insightful.

At the end of the day, you have other great cables to fall back on, so you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

CnoEvil wrote:

When I met Touraj, he was knowledgeable and interesting but quite forthright.....but he certainly didn't slag off the opposition, as imo he felt his product could stand on its own merit - and from what I heard, he was right.

I am not really trying to defend what he said, but like a few leading lights in the industry, he can probably come across as a little arrogant (Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note springs to mind). IMO. This springs from a feeling that they are right, and like some great surgeons, are brilliant but a bit blunt.

I also would be surprised if that email was ever meant for a potential customer's eyes, as it was his thoughts about the situation to his agent.

I have a strong suspicion that he knows exactly what he is talking about (even if we don't), and it will be worth seeing if he comes up with something insightful.

At the end of the day, you have other great cables to fall back on, so you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

 

So if he knows exactly what he is talking about and is therefore right, it means there are very severe problems with Alex's setup such that a cable that could not possibly beat the vertere is somehow sounding better. Would you therefore agree now is not the time to be spending so much money on cables before these deep seated problems are rectified?

I am the danger. 

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