RobinKidderminster wrote:DM .... Fast forward, back in the 70's was marked 78 & bass boost marked 16. Nopiano ... disagree. Garrard 86sb knox the sox off any modern tt at a sub 1k price point. Fitted with no5 knitting needle it works a treat. Using ME75ED currently. Fight on ... setting up cd/tt comparison as we speak tho need to put batteries in my hearing aid one day. More boohooPS. Where can I source a decent video LP in HD format to compare my BD player?
DM .... Fast forward, back in the 70's was marked 78 & bass boost marked 16. Nopiano ... disagree. Garrard 86sb knox the sox off any modern tt at a sub 1k price point. Fitted with no5 knitting needle it works a treat. Using ME75ED currently. Fight on ... setting up cd/tt comparison as we speak tho need to put batteries in my hearing aid one day. More boohoo
PS. Where can I source a decent video LP in HD format to compare my BD player?
And ... how does it sound (make noise)?
Still waiting for mine
drummerman wrote: Apparently only 301 and 401's are worth considering.
Aye thats the way to go. So thee best put one of yer kidneys up for sale on Gumtree to finance a half decent 301/401 chassis. Then your left leg for a slate plinth etc etc.
Dont bury yourself in blurb at the min mate ,tis a ruddy minefield if you are green behind the ears.
Hi DM my Dad had one its still in his loft from what I can remember it sounded pretty good back in the day it has a goldring g800 catridge
I borrowed it about 15 years ago to record about 200 45s singles onto minidisc and it did a good jod I burned them from minidisc onto cd for audio its as good as any but its not an audiophile product enjoy it for what it is
Right drummerman, let's be a bit serious for a bit!
If you really are as green as you say you are in the ways of turntables, be VERY careful what you do otherwise your new LP will be trashed in no time at all. I suggest you persevere and try reading up here -
http://www.vinylengine.com/ before making any rash moves.
If you don't already have an amp with a phono stage, you'll need to get one (either an amp with one or a separate one). Then you'll need to set up the TT properly, and you should probably get a new stylus too.
If you're really not that green and you are trying to illicit laughs, then good on you; I particularly like the Wow/Flutter question
Not sure what audiophile means really but the deck sounded ok back in rhe 70's to me. Removing the auto helped as it only lifts the arm at the end of the record. Careful lubrication is always a good idea and accurate setup. Cant do it now since away from home but will do asap.
Yamaha V2065. MS Mezzo 5.1 Panasonic 42. Sony BD. Garrard 86SB. WD Live TV. SkyHD.
Well, I am still waiting for the Garrard. Should be here in the next few days.
However, spurned on by your comments I won a what looks like absolutely mint Thorens TD115 with Ortofon VMS 20E MK11 (?) Cartridge. Even comes with the original instruction manual.
Is this a decent table? - One thing I didnt notice is that it has Linn connections. I guess I can change those to conventional RCA's ...
I still hope I like the Garrard though. One of them will go back on the bay
PS. Just sorted the connection issue. Even comes with good leads ... like I think
Well good and bad news.
The Garrard arrived ... damaged. Both plint and lid broken in transit if the seller description is correct. Still, in the process of contacting the carrier to try and get some compensation.
Other than that (!) it looks in good fret with a nice tone arm and cartridge/stylus. - This TT will be taken apart, all linkages and bearings cleaned and freshly lubricated and the belt replaced in the process. I will probably discard the damaged plint rather than repairing it and either make a new one or leave the chassis 'naked' but suspended. Like I said, I like the look of this one.
Now to the thorens; I went and drove a couple of hours to pick this one up and glad I did. - It is in superb condition and has been well looked after. A good cartridge and clean stylus is part of the package as is a lovely cnc machined aluminium lightweight clamp with locking collar. This table too will be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned/lubricated as well as receiving a new belt. I love the unusual looks and it seems very well built.
How do they sound? No idea. First things first but whichever is the keeper will probably receive a cardas tonearm rewiring and the other one probably sold off in good working condition to hopefully do service for many years to come.
the 86sb. along with its cheaper brother the 25, where horrible when new, but to be fair no worse than a stack of the competition. The deck at the time was a Sansui SR 22, or maybe a Pioneer PL12 D. Both a tad more expensive but a good bit better. Then this thing from a little UK company came along and wiped the floor with them, It was called a planer, from some cowboy outfit called, err Rega. They were hard to buy though. The Sansui and Pioneer, well you just walked into Comet and ask for one, and they gave you a box, the Rega, they made you listen to it, and usually a Linn as well, when you said either I prefer the Rega, or can not afford the Linn, they said OK, took a deposit, and 12 weeks (ish) later, you had a deck.
respe wrote:...the 86sb. along with its cheaper brother the 25, where horrible when new...
...the 86sb. along with its cheaper brother the 25, where horrible when new...
I already told him that; no need to rub it in!
Krell CD and amp, Michell TT, Hitachi and Sony tuners, Nakamichi cassette, SBT streamer, Sonus faber spkrs.
Glad u say horrible when new. Mine is great now its old.
More seriously I thought as a budget deck it was well thought of and much better than sp25. The 100sb even better. Still going to dust off mine soon.
No worries, I don't expect to much from the Garrard but we'll see ...
Wow, I seem to have problems with the forum at the moment; Often it doesn't respond and when it does ... its very, very slow. Perhaps just my end ... ?
Anyways, about the turntables. Here is a little bit more to bore you lot to death;
The Thorens looks and sounds gorgeous. Engaging, rythmical and very clear with some Pat Metheny. Pitch is stable. Thats before I did any servicing which will be done after the Garrard.
Where am I with it ... ; A nice project for a first turntable, I dont think I could have picked something more mechanicaly complicated but thats fine. Got stuck in and disassembled the entire linkage, almost every part. A lot of it was stuck and didn't move, the old garrard grease was set solid in places hence the previous owner just having used manual. There was grease in places which there shouldnt be any ... rectified. All cleaned with isopropyl and lubed where necessary. - Everything has been properly aligned and now moves nicely and smooth, lovely. This bit alone took a good 4 hours. The auto play engages and the arm moves to where it should be. I haven't played anything yet on it though so we'll see. I'm confident it'll be fine.
Ordered a new belt of the bay (well, actually two which somebody ordered in error) and as luck would have it, the seller lives in the same town, even better.
Cleaned the platter bearing, a simple inverted ball. It looks fine as does the sleeve and top. There is absolutely no sideward play or oscillation. Re-lubed with a little mobil1 0-40 and the platter spins silently and absolutely evenly for about 2 1/2 minutes. The bottom O-ring has deteriated so I am awaiting some new ones. Once fitted the bearing will hold a small reservoir of oil and should do service for years to come.
Disassembled the motor. A nice Synchrolab Model II which apparently has quite a good reputation. Its a simple but well built motor. Cleaned it out with isoprop and re-lubed the bottom/top bearings. - Cleaned the pulley back to its original colour and took the shine of the drive part with ultra fine wet sandpaper followed by a good clean with alcohol. The motor now looks like new and is whisper quiet. I then cleaned the rubber suspension grommets and used some silicon to make them pliable again. - I further damped the motor by isolating the plate which holds the motor and is the interface with the suspension grommets with sorbothane on both sides where the screws drive through the motor and connect to the back plate. - There is no vibration I could feel going to the top-plate of the turntable anymore. There was little if any before but everything helps.
What next? I will pay attention to the arm, including bearings. I dont expect any surprises as there is no play and the arm moves smoothly in all directions. Still, has to be done.
Next will be a trial run.
All the basics are there for a good turntable; Good motor, nice arm (in some ways forward thinking, in others a bit compromised but I'll work around that).
The triangular arm 'tube' is in some ways 'forward thinking, albeit 50 years ago. It will by design be less inclined to ringing and vibration. There is a reason why tubular structures ring very well ... . The bearings seem good quality, they survived a few decades with no play.
The platter is a good weight without risking to destroy the bearing/sleeve and it seems true/well machined. It rings like I would imagine most metal platters do but that is rectifiable and relatively easy to do.
So, there you go. An old lady with hopefully a new lease of life.
More to come
This is more like talking to myself ... an absolute pleasure.
Today I've started the old girl up in anger for the first time. All greased up with a nice new tight belt, she's behaving like all good pensioners should ... steady and quiet.
The suspended motor is both torquey and totally silent, bringing the platter up to speed in less than a rotation with help of the new belt.
The exercise so far has been to bring the Garrard back to its intended mechanical condition, including the auto function. That has been achieved, almost; Auto start will lift and place the arm at the beginning of the record most of the time but it has a tendency to place it to close to the edge with the result that on a couple of times the arm/cartridge slipped of the edge. Some adjustment needed and I have to look at that. Auto return and switch off are now faultless.
I dont have a strobe disc for the Garrard but will print one tomorrow. However, playing a track with consistent synth levels there was no audible speed variations whatsoever. Good.
Bearing in mind that nothing has been properly set up on this TT yet (I roughly set tracking force at 1.5g for the Sure MJ75EJ, thats it) the Garrard sounds better than I expected after reading some of the comments on here but there's scope for improvement. Mids are good, highs are there and present with no shouting or grating and the Soundstage is decent.. Surface noise is a little higher than with the Thorens and it is rythmically slightly less on the ball.
The biggest issue, surpisingly after reading some reviews of both the cartridge and the somewhat related Zero 100SB and 25's is a lack of bass and bass punch. There in particular it lags, at the moment at least, behind the 115. - I guess a cartridge swap would shed some light on this but we're not quite there.
I will start setting up properly once the Auto Start issue is solved. - The weak bass could be the cartridge, cabling (I used the crappy 50pence interconnect that came with it ... easily changed as the Garrard has RCA's or even tonearm/headshell wiring.
All this will be attacked next. Talking of headshell ... this particular garrard uses a sliding mechanism for the cartridge. Whilst convenient it is not ideal and I have an idea for it.
All good fun so far
We all ears ....
floyd droid wrote:
drummerman wrote: Apparently only 301 and 401's are worth considering. Aye thats the way to go. So thee best put one of yer kidneys up for sale on Gumtree to finance a half decent 301/401 chassis. Then your left leg for a slate plinth etc etc. Dont bury yourself in blurb at the min mate ,tis a ruddy minefield if you are green behind the ears.
If you're new to turntables (and incidentally, shouldn't this thread be in another place?), the last thing you want is someone telling you to buy a Garrard 401. Massive cost and effort, overpriced and overrated in my 45 + years experience of listening to t/ts.
Far better to get a cheaper Rega, or even better in my view, a second-hand Thorens. There are plenty of integrated TD160s around, and when fully sorted they sound superb.
Incidentally your Shure cartridge is OK, just needs a new stylus probably. Try Jico from Japan.