So I recieved my M1 Vynil yesterday.
An it looks great. I don't have to switch the volume anymore when I switch with cd's
an the sound is pretty amazing the few doubts I have are comming from the Lavardin whaT I mean it sound really good an lively with a clean bass an lot of detail but from time to time a litle analitical. I had the same feeling on cd... So can't wait to have my AMS.
It's playing in now so it's getting better an better. An I hope I can compare the M1 to Alex 's phonostage tomorow.
So it sound cleaner an directer as an Nad pp3 (ok really not the same budget) altrough I'm not shure how I will compare it to a VPLS that I testet a while ago...
Also I'm not shore how to use the different settings you have on the M1..... I try to figure that out while it's running in, I dont know how long that should be.....
Denon 1911/B&W 683, 685, HTM61, ASW610XP/Ps3, WII, X box 360
AMS 35i/Cambridge Azure 650 cd/Squeezox touch/Clear audio Champion lmtd edition with MC Simphony II cardrige/Okki NoKKi Record cleaning machine/M1 Vinl Phono stage/Audioquest 'Golden gate' rca's/Avalon Ascendent (A ha s/c test)
I forgot to say that one critical thing for this set-up to work is that your AV receiver must have RCA pre-out jacks. I had a look at the Denon 1911 & I dont think that it has pre-outs so I don't think you will be able to join it to the AMS.
If I am wrong and it does have pre-outs, you would connect the front left/right pre-out jacks of your AV receiver to the AUX inputs on the AMS (you can use any input). You no longer connect the front speakers to the AV receiver.
So the AV receiver would then be used to drive the centre / surround speakers & send the front speaker signals to the AMS. This would allow you to use the AMS for gaming & movies in a surround set-up.
You have to calibrate the volumes so that the front levels from the AMS match up with the centre & surround speakers. This would usually be done by setting the AMS volume to a predetermined position (often 12 o'clock, easy to remember) & then run the Audessy equalisation from the Denon to match the levels. The when you turn the volume up on the AV you do the same on the AMS & the same on the way down.
For music listening your CD player / turntable would be connected directly to the AMS. Your Denon AV reciever is turned off & has nothing to do with music at all.
The important thing to remember is that when you switch the AMS from using the AV/aux input to a music source input, that you remember to turn the volume down first. Otherwise it might be really loud when you start playing music & could damage your speakers.
If you do a fair bit of gaming & enjoy watching movies I might have to retract my previous statement about buying speakers first. Maybe you should look at trying to get an AV reciever with pre-outs? I am definitely listening to more music now with my new set-up, but at least 50% of my usage is home theatre. I couldn't deal with it if the two amps didn't work together, to me this is a must have.
You can spend lots of money as per usual but you don't really need to. If you are happy with Denon you could easily find a second hand deal on one with pre-outs. Try & sell your 1911 to offset the change over.
Sorry, so much more to do your head in but for me it is vital that everything works together. I don't really want (or could afford) to have separate home theatre / music systems.
Oh yes, one more thing, I have found it invaluable to have a universal remote to make it easy to use all the different things together, especially the multiple volume controls. I just use a fairly cheap Logitech Harmony, but this is another thing you can spend truck loads of money on if you wanted to!
There are heaps of threads you can find about this whole process. I know CNO does it so I'm sure he would have some valuble insight to add.
Rest assured though, you have definitely made the best choice for your stereo amp. I just fall more & more in love with my new darling every day
MF AMS-Primo / MF AMS-35P / Linn Akurate DS / Focal Utopia Diablos / Krix Epicentrix / Focal Dome 2 / JL Audio Fathom F110 / JL Audio Fathom F112 / Bryston 10B-Sub / Yamaha RX-Z7 / Oppo Nuforce BDP-93 / PS3 / QNAP TS-219P Turbo NAS
I think I will nitegrate hifi & ht I will be gaining some space
To resolve my gaming problem when I listen to music I can turn of the audio system on the tv an use the tv speakers.
Or if I switch the av on gaming an my ams on cdp will the av only use the center an rears? An the ams will still play music from the fronts (I gues so as that seem pretty logical, but im not a 100% shure)
True 1911 don't have pre out's (the 1910 had it but for some reason they took it out afther that ), so my plan was to move it to the bedroom with a cheap speakerset. an buy a not to expensive reciever with pre out's for the living room to drive the rears & center.
True an univarsal remote is one to think about as I'm getting a pretty large colection of remote's
Well sthe solution came.
Dealer called me yesterday thhe cdp was sold while I had it at home so I'm going to bring it back this evening. Instead I bought a few cd's on Amazone ( costing me more or less 20x less ).
I don't think I will sell my 683's but I will use theme in my HT as fronts but it is far away so I'm not shure about it yet....
I might use my new speakers driven by the ams....I'm just strugeling with that part because I like to keep HT/HI-FI seperatet.
As when I'm gaming I like the sound of my game on a low volume an put a cd on pretty loud.
But my dealer said I should use the AMS to drive my fronts an that it doesn't really mather if the rest of the speakers are from an other model or brand, I always tought otherwise
But that's a headbreaker for later.
Neuphonix has given a pretty good summary.
IMO For AV, the front 3 speakers should be the same make, and preferably the same model. The rears are better from the same brand, but can be a lesser model.
When connecting an AV amp with the AMS, it makes sense to tonally match the two amps as far as possible....how much this matters depends on how fussy you are, and how important 2 channel is (ie. what compromise you are prepared to make to get this right).
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
if you put it like that I'm better of keeping everything separated. Otherwise it gone cost me a fortune :-( As the centre who will match my front's will provably cost as much as the av system I have now....
But oké this is if you want HT to be as perfect as your hifi no?
As that is not the case an I rather pay atantion to my HI-FI to be perfect. I guess I will compromize, An even then I will have a pretty good HT system no?
Looking at the shortlist of speakers I'm considering, an using the speakers I have (hmt-61 & the 685 for the rears the 683 in that case will be replaced an sold. Oké this is long term 2j I guess but nothing wrong with trying to figure out witch way I'm going)
If you can keep everything separate, that is usually best.
It means that the 35i is only on, when listening to music; and it allows you to concentrate more on your favored 2 channel, without your AV system having to catch up.
It also cuts out all that mixing and matching of amps and speakers, and set up/use, is much easier.
But if you keep everyting sepearate you end up having two sets of speakers or having to plug /unplug them from amp to amp? Or I guess you could use a speaker switch.
I didn't buy a new centre when I got the Diablos (was thinking about it sometime in the future) but to be honest I don't find any issue with my current one. It's a pretty good example of a centre, big six way, so it was never going to struggle.
I reckon buy the best stereo amp & front speakers as these are going to last a long time.
The AV receiever you can compromise on, the technology is changing so rapidly you don't hav to have the ducks guts if you dont have the money. Standard surround features with HDMI & RCA pre-outs, thats all you need. It will all be different in four or five years anyway.
It just seems a pity not to be able to use the AMS (and your new fronts when you buy them) for all of your applications. I guess if you looked at your usage and said that movies/tv/gaming was only about 20% then maybe not worth the trouble, but if you're closer to 50/50 then it's a no brainer IMHO.
Question for you CNO, do you or have you ever run a sub from the outputs on the AMS? I'm experimenting with a little sub I borrowed from my dealer at the moment. So far I've only used it via the LFE out on the AV, but was thinking about running it from the AMS instead. Any thoughts?
Yes, I have the AMS connected to the Sub through the pre-outs.....just be warned though, the Sub needs to be muted when turning the MF on/off, as it sends a thump through it.
I only use the Sub on certain music that requires extra gravitas; or when listening at a low level, as it acts like a "loudness button".
Re AV/Stereo mix - What I said really applies, if 2 channel of a very high quality is required, and 5.1 isn't....and they are in separate rooms. If they are in the one room, it is better to try and combine them, and live with the compromises.
Compromise will be the answer I guess at leadt in the beginning. An to be honnest I can try it out at least for a while as fo starter the 683 will be my front's untill my speaker change. This should give me a pretty good idear if I want it all to be separated (like now, ass until now I was always told this was the best way to go ) or integrate bothe world's
it both have pro's an contra's if you ask me....
looks like it's going to be a small head breaker after all
There is always going to be some level of comprimise
But just think how much better Uncharted of Mass Effect would be pumping out of your 685's!!! >)
I guess I was just thinking if you could manage to pick up a econd hand AV with pre-outs, sell your 1911, so that the change over was less than say $800? then maybe it was worth considering in the short term.
I know this goes against what I said about saving up for your speakers but I really think the benifit is worthwhile. Much more than say the difference between two CD players, but that's just my opinion & based on my usage.
How many days to go now before the AMP warming party?
I wish I knew at least this wknd I recieved my M1 Vinl to play with
....it is a Class A amp, after all!
The reason I didn't came on the forum this period Is because I was strugling with my tought's an started to have sereous doubts about my choices an the amount of money I was prepared to spend.
Sertenly afther I compared M1 Vynl with Alex's phono stage...Don't get me wrong The M1 is superb but when we compared both thz EAR was just that litle more musical....
But I thing you should have some perspective...
The M1 was less played in, cost like half the price an it will be much better hooked up to my AMS.
First I have to say the Lavardin was sounding better an better The dealer adviced me to keep it on wich I did an effectifly it was sounding warmer an nice detailed with a controlled tunfull bass.
So no the reason I'm back, The AMS arrived 2 weeks ago but I only picked it up Friday as I was stucked in bussines trips the last weeks.
I'went to the dealer afther work. I had to hurry as my client was like 120km away from the dealer. It took me a litle less than 2h to arrive I told the dealer he said don't worry I have someone her from france who spend 4h in the car for a demo
So when I arrived We went outside have some wine great new one "Barbera d'alba" If I remember well. when he have it in his assortiment for shure I will buy some botles.
I arrived at 18.45 an left arround 21.00 an didn't notice at all 2h where gone by.
So afther that So with my amp an much lighter bank acount went home. I had this strange feeling happy because it was done but.....asking my self what kind of person does this???? I love my music, so when I think about it's it more like I'm a bit ashamed I can affort to buy this kind of gear... Because let be honest most people can't an let be honest it is a litle extravagant. It took me a while to realise it was more that tought I was strugling with than spending the money on it self.
So no some heavy lifting... Damn it's heavy.... I didn't remeber it was thar heavy last time I carried on up stairs.
My best friend came to my apartment last week an told me I have a nice place an she can understand I want a good relaxing possition to listen to my music. But like this it just look like a storrage room.
It was kind of late an I needed to move some funiture arround.I left The amp in the box watched a movie an went to sleep.
In the morning I started to move stuff, but afther a while I had no imagination an didn't know it any more so went out. Stated to think about tha best set upp only in the morning
Slowly I found let see the best compromise an put everything in place. It's far from perfect an shutly not the way I want it but it's a compromise like I said. On the other hand I'm shure I wil move a few thinks arrond in the next day's.
Thing is the dealer said I shoul not move the amp arround as I will restard the playingin process over an over again. even if I think this is kind of strange I geuss I will maybe try 1 or 2 smaal set up chages but afther that avoid to move my gear arround.
At least untill my construction work begin. An than I will have a decent set up an normaly definate position for my gear at least I hope.
So it was not untill yesterday 21H I was able to open the magic heavy box an hook up the AMS. put some cd's on. an yes it sounded good. Let just say like with every amp I tested you need to get used to it. My impression was that it was less musical than what I was used to from the AMS I didn't have a long listening but some times I was tinking the bass was a bit overwelming an the dedail to metalic...
I'm not worrying about it as I have now a new listening position witch I need to get used to an tha amp imp is brand new an need to play in loosening up a bit.
Ho year it look's beatifull in my set an it is black....
Only bad thing about yesterday is that while I was moving my stuff arround I axedently pushed in one of the tweeters on my 683's. I managed to get it out again almost fully with duck tape but you can still see some scratches on the aluminium
I hope I didn't damage it sonicly I mean. My first impression is no but my listening session was to short to tell.
Maybe one of you can tell me...
All things considerd I'm really happy with my new toy
An I'm already thinking about my next upgrade >)
Altrough I'm not shure what that will be....
During my listening session it was getting f.king warm in my apartment....
an somthing I didn't mention but yesterday I had again this tought...that remote damn....
But that is something I already knew, but still
Roby, it's good to hear back from you, especially with such a straightforward and honest assessment of what you're going through.....don't worry too much, as it often takes time, patience and experimentation, in order to get the sound right.
Let the amp settle in for a few days before making too much of an assessment. I'm as sure as I can be, that you will end up being very comfortable with your decision.
If your floor is suspended, isolating your speakers from it, should greatly improve the bass.
Playing around with the placement (much as you're doing), pays dividends.
The remote is a complete pain, so keep an eye out on Ebay for a cheap plastic MF one....or see if the dealer has one lying about.
In the winter you'll be glad of the extra heat!
It's not until you upgrade the speakers that you will finally get the whole balance right.
I look forward to hearing what you have to say, when things have settled down a little.
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