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CJSF's picture
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Applying 1980 values . . .
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HiFi . . . a world I inhabited for many years as a younger man . . . a world that collapsed around me in 95, and stayed derelict until early this year. Picking up the pieces was initially a hard task, however, its become easier in recent months. Lots of frustration along the way for me and the readers of my threads?

Unfortunately, on occasions one has been misunderstood . . . but many of the comments have helped, pulled me up, made me re-look, helped to put my mind and thoughts in order, so than you for your patience.

I feel as though I am at the end of this particular road of re discovering hifi, my pleasure in music and its reproduction. I have gone back over the recent threads with interest, a few turning points and frustration. But the goal has been achieved, not by mimicking my 1980's sound . . . more by applying my values of that era.

What was said not to be possible, has more than been achieved. When I should have stopped, I pressed on through the barrier . . . an achievement in my topsy-turvy but improving world.

It has been interesting that the source TT was simple, un-presuming, as is the rest of the system. I think I've said before, over design, in my mind, is often a problem.

The final phase was the Sumiko cartridge, putting the icing on the cake so to speak . . . the cherry had to be added . . . ????? I new there was a cherry, but finding it? Going back would have upset what I saw as a 'balanced system for me'. The weak link was the Ortofon T5 phono plug transformer step ups, in truth, always a stop gap. As good as the T5's are . . . I had to push that last bit, were they a weak link?

. . . I have found some friendly, helpful dealers, they need digging out, from back streets and back rooms. Two such dealers loaned 'step ups' for me to try. A pair of Stevens & Billington step-up transformers, a vintage Carver MCt step up transformer and a Dynovector step up amp with Russ Andrews PSU.

A pot full of Cherries . . . they all have their points, but we are talking minimal sideways moves around the same centre of excellence. I have plumped for the vintage Carver, its from my era, with open sound stage, extra layers revealed, reality of instruments and voice along with musicality and smoothness. Its edge . . . a drive and crispness to dynamics that just demands attention . . . without being harsh, again a quality I remember from the transformer I used in the 80's. I have an old recording of Sandy Nelson that came over as though the performance was in the room. I have never heard, drums and symbols so real, skin strike! before the note and harmonics develop was simply jaw dropping. Then there is the old style Stratocaster, old style played . . . wow, I was standing next to it! All the normal test tracks stood out, finally Miserere, I usually leave till the evening of any test session, not this time . . . image . . . air . . . the extra layers that had been revealed by the Sumiko/T5 combination, was simply more articulate.

I genuinely dont think I can go any further with out upsetting the balance of the whole. I truly do not want to go further. One is restricted by room size and cash flow . . . says Hazel :read: Bless here . . .

I've got all these records to listen to . . . CJSF

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

As the Doobie Brothers said "Listen to the music" :rockout: :bounce: and enjoy it. Too much anlaysing and you'll end up :help: again.

Michell Orbe SE. Origin Live Illustrious 2/3. Transfiguration Axia S. Roksan amps. Dali Epicon 3 speakers.

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

The end of the end . . . After 16 years of wilderness, 12 months of fighting my demons, hifi was . . . is my anchor, seems the forum has lost interest? . . . ho hum :bounce:  but I have won! . . . Despite the thinking, I was/am mad . . . may be the case?

I have finally achieved 'the sound', yesterday I thought it was it.  All day today 'listening to my music', a tweak and re visit to one of the old significant TT changes, all the pieces dropped into place:dance:

I can enjoy the nearest thing to my 80's audiophile musical experience that lurks in my memory. 

I muse back, no major component in my system have I paid full price for, either ex dem, called in favours, or simply second hand.  Thinking back that was how I did it the first time round:rofl:   A bit of tenacity, a lot of &alls, and sticking to the age old  principals of excellence at the front end . . . Linn had something right; 'rubbish in rubbish out'.

My audiophile sound was not perfect in 1980, it is not perfect now . . . but I like what I hear which is the underlying second principal, 'it pleases me . . . and Hazel'.

I look forward to Horlicks time this evening with Hazel.

CJSF

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

CJSF wrote:

 seems the forum has lost interest? . . . 

I look forward to Horlicks time this evening with Hazel.

CJSF

Please don't equate a lack of response with a lack of interest....sometimes there is nothing constructive to add to your comprehensive "blog"....or rhetorical questions. Smile

As long as Hazel is in your corner, nothing else really matters. Smile

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

CJSF wrote:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

 

 

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

CnoEvil wrote:

CJSF wrote:

 seems the forum has lost interest? . . . 

I look forward to Horlicks time this evening with Hazel.

CJSF

Please don't equate a lack of response with a lack of interest....sometimes there is nothing constructive to add to your comprehensive "blog"....or rhetorical questions. Smile As long as Hazel is in your corner, nothing else really matters. :)

Too true - perhaps CJ has achieved the perfect COMPROMISE, and that's all one can ask.

Sit back with your Horlicks and enjoy the sweet sounds...:wave:

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

Ho-Hum . . . at least it did generate some response?

As it was TT one was dealing with, I thought that those who own or the desire to own a TT might have gained something from the experience?  Seems I cant win? . . . but I did win . . . you bet I have won.:cheer:

CJSF

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

Hi CJ

Glad you have found the cart you were looking for. I personally didnt have anything to add. I did learn something though, you have to spend a lot of your hard earned on a MC cart and step up transformers to get a top notch sound! I wouldnt fit someyhing like that on my humble P3.

I'll treat myself to decent TT in year or two. Thanks for the posts CJ i'm sure we've all learnt something from your search in some way or another. 

Cheers Ed Smile

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

edplaysdrums42 wrote:

Hi CJ

Glad you have found the cart you were looking for. I personally didnt have anything to add. I did learn something though, you have to spend a lot of your hard earned on a MC cart and step up transformers to get a top notch sound! I wouldnt fit someyhing like that on my humble P3.

I'll treat myself to decent TT in year or two. Thanks for the posts CJ i'm sure we've all learnt something from your search in some way or another. 

Cheers Ed Smile

 

Hay Ed, The cost of the Sumiko cartridge and the MC transformer in total was no more than a new Ortofon Black . . . !  Its the putting myself about that put me in the 'right place at the right time' to grab the bargain.  I would perhaps agree, the Sumi is a bit OTT on the P3 . . . but then that was said of the P5, it has risen to the occasion.  I was very lucky with both the cartridge and the Carver MCt . . . ?  there are some that say 'we make our own luck'?  I certainly spent a lot of time thinking, actual tinker time was minimal, in with the thinking comes hours on the internet, searching, reading, re thinking?

I look back, take on board the advise; 'listen to the music'.  That translates, in my mind, 'never mind the quality, feel the width', if I've got the cash, I cant make do . . . don the work, now is the time to listen to the 'performances', the fruits of my labours.

Had a great 'Horlicks' session last night, dug out some chamber music by Vivaldi and Bach, followed by the now obligatory Miserere, which we listen to in the dark, eyes closed, try it some time with a piece of ethereal type music, its an experience, trust me. 

You would really appreciate my Sandy Nelson, recorded early 60's, no messing about with over dubs, WYSIWYG! The Sumiko brings the drum kit into the room, and at 12ft square, thats intimate!

The P3 is a nice TT, well engineered, that can be improved with the GT2 ISO-sub-platter.  The ISO weight is good for the arm, but you do have to work with the cartridge down force to get the best from it.  There is also the much cheaper (£15) option of the SRM sub-platter damping kit. I found that it worked better minus 2 opposite section.

CJSF

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. Dirol

Michell Orbe SE. Origin Live Illustrious 2/3. Transfiguration Axia S. Roksan amps. Dali Epicon 3 speakers.

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

Lost Angeles wrote:

21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. Dirol

 

Ah, but Horlicks does not give you a headache . . . I'm happy 'back in the good old days'.  Pull up the draw bridge, Hazel, dog, slippers, no pipe (non smoker) and relax, watch the world doing its lemming impression . . .

CJSF

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

CJSF wrote:
Lost Angeles wrote:
21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. 8)

 . . . I'm happy 'back in the good old days'.

Red wine was around long before the 'good old days' and thousands of years before ###### Horlicks.

I'm sick of the stuff and I don't even drink it! (Who does, apart from CJSF and Hazel?)

CJSF wrote:
. . . watch the world doing its lemming impression . . .

You do know that was a myth perpetrated by Disney don't you?

 

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

chebby wrote:

CJSF wrote:
Lost Angeles wrote:
21st century values, Red wine beats Horlicks any day. 8)

 . . . I'm happy 'back in the good old days'.

Red wine was around long before the 'good old days' and thousands of years before ###### Horlicks.

I'm sick of the stuff and I don't even drink it! (Who does, apart from CJSF and Hazel?)

CJSF wrote:
. . . watch the world doing its lemming impression . . .

You do know that was a myth perpetrated by Disney don't you?

 

Not Horlicks - I'm a warm milk person... Sealed

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

chebby wrote:
CJSF wrote:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

and if you were a little bit more concise in your postings it might help. I mean I started reading the first post and I've got to be honest, I've no idea what the relevance of the subject line is because I never got past the first paragraph. I don't find your writing style conducive to an easy read.

And as someone else said, you over-analyse to an extraordinary degree (it appears, I'm basing that on your own postings, so if you aren't doing that then, well, it's your fault that you give that impression. And I am aware that I'm analysing your postings to the nth degree...). Either way, it doesn't really fit into the concept of a quick browse, your threads require a lot of time to get anything out of them and I daresay most people don't come here in that frame of mind.

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

The_Lhc wrote:

chebby wrote:
CJSF wrote:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

and if you were a little bit more concise in your postings it might help. I mean I started reading the first post and I've got to be honest, I've no idea what the relevance of the subject line is because I never got past the first paragraph. I don't find your writing style conducive to an easy read.

And as someone else said, you over-analyse to an extraordinary degree (it appears, I'm basing that on your own postings, so if you aren't doing that then, well, it's your fault that you give that impression. And I am aware that I'm analysing your postings to the nth degree...). Either way, it doesn't really fit into the concept of a quick browse, your threads require a lot of time to get anything out of them and I daresay most people don't come here in that frame of mind.

The_Lhc . . . ??? I'm a thinker . . . or try to be?  Whats so wrong about that? . . . you want things laid on a plate, take the easy rout?:?   My threads tend to be my thought processes out loud, usually, without a conclusion . . . as such, those processes tend to be a little random some times, I'm a bit that way anyway . . . the idea is for other 'thinking individuals' to help put the thoughts into perspective, almost as a debate, airing the pros and cons?

There is no such thing as over analysis, its how much one wishes to take note of said considerations.  Me, I like it in depth, then one takes the meat and spits out the bones, whats so wrong about that?

CJSF

 

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RE: Applying 1980 values . . .

CJSF wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

chebby wrote:
CJSF wrote:
seems the forum has lost interest? . . .

99 percent of your posts have been in the 'Turntables and LPs' sub-forum which is usually only seen by those who deliberately seek out turntable related posts. (Or those - like me - who view all active topics.)

So your 'audience' is somewhat limited to begin with.

and if you were a little bit more concise in your postings it might help. I mean I started reading the first post and I've got to be honest, I've no idea what the relevance of the subject line is because I never got past the first paragraph. I don't find your writing style conducive to an easy read.

And as someone else said, you over-analyse to an extraordinary degree (it appears, I'm basing that on your own postings, so if you aren't doing that then, well, it's your fault that you give that impression. And I am aware that I'm analysing your postings to the nth degree...). Either way, it doesn't really fit into the concept of a quick browse, your threads require a lot of time to get anything out of them and I daresay most people don't come here in that frame of mind.

The_Lhc . . . ??? I'm a thinker . . . or try to be?  Whats so wrong about that? . . . you want things laid on a plate, take the easy rout?:?   My threads tend to be my thought processes out loud, usually, without a conclusion

Yes and that's what makes them so difficult to read.

Quote:
. . . as such, those processes tend to be a little random some times, I'm a bit that way anyway . . . the idea is for other 'thinking individuals' to help put the thoughts into perspective, almost as a debate, airing the pros and cons?

There is no such thing as over analysis, its how much one wishes to take note of said considerations.  Me, I like it in depth, then one takes the meat and spits out the bones, whats so wrong about that?

There's nothing "wrong" with it but you queried why you weren't getting much response, I'm giving you my opinion on why that is, you don't write with your reader in mind.

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