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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Rimse wrote:

pauln wrote:

To all those who believe that they have golden ears; click on the link at the bottom of Craig M's post then scroll down until you get to the link to the McGurk effect and watch it. Your ears lie to you most of the time.

NwAvGuy has a similar attitude to Alan Shaw (Harbeth) - he is an engineer who does not believe the HiFi myths and like AS he can provide plenty of evidence to back up his beliefs.

I think what most people here are trying to do is to prevent people wasting a lot money on things that make no difference.

"Let your ears decide" is possibly the worst advice to give anyone.

if alan shaw don't believe in wires ,why he in anniversary model shl5 speakers changed wires to expensive ones  :P?

There is diffrence because  the wires are made from copper,silver,mixed content etc...data still flow,no problem,that is ok,but added material to wire ads flavour ,and changing sound ,not drastic .All blind test fail because brain of human remembers only fractions of music track which was played.some instruments are missing . Dance 4

I somebody doesn't believe you can consider example with the light as data,light in bulbs , light in most cases do its job,as data do flowing inside wire.There are variuos colors of light which :led,diods,ect...Or you still believe that everything is placebo effect ROFL

 

This must be one of the most incoherent posts I've ever read on this forum, and that's saying something. 

 

Let me try and understand: USB cables are like coffee? But they're also like different coloured lights? Is coffee like different coloured lights? Even though it's brown? And this disproves the theory of a placebo effect? A simple yes will suffice if I've followed you correctly. 

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

BenLaw wrote:

Rimse wrote:

pauln wrote:

To all those who believe that they have golden ears; click on the link at the bottom of Craig M's post then scroll down until you get to the link to the McGurk effect and watch it. Your ears lie to you most of the time.

NwAvGuy has a similar attitude to Alan Shaw (Harbeth) - he is an engineer who does not believe the HiFi myths and like AS he can provide plenty of evidence to back up his beliefs.

I think what most people here are trying to do is to prevent people wasting a lot money on things that make no difference.

"Let your ears decide" is possibly the worst advice to give anyone.

if alan shaw don't believe in wires ,why he in anniversary model shl5 speakers changed wires to expensive ones  :P?

There is diffrence because  the wires are made from copper,silver,mixed content etc...data still flow,no problem,that is ok,but added material to wire ads flavour ,and changing sound ,not drastic .All blind test fail because brain of human remembers only fractions of music track which was played.some instruments are missing . Dance 4

I somebody doesn't believe you can consider example with the light as data,light in bulbs , light in most cases do its job,as data do flowing inside wire.There are variuos colors of light which :led,diods,ect...Or you still believe that everything is placebo effect ROFL

 

This must be one of the most incoherent posts I've ever read on this forum, and that's saying something. 

 

Let me try and understand: USB cables are like coffee? But they're also like different coloured lights? Is coffee like different coloured lights? Even though it's brown? And this disproves the theory of a placebo effect? A simple yes will suffice if I've followed you correctly. 

I would mostly agree with you, apart from pointing out that coffee is black - anything else is an abomination.
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

hammill wrote:
I would mostly agree with you, apart from pointing out that coffee is black - anything else is an abomination.

 

Ah, you see, coffee is purely subjective. As far as I know(I could be wrong), there is no objective data available on the taste.

Personally I think the best coffee is made with 100% boiling milk and instant! 

Either that, or a very strong espresso, mixed with an equal amount of boiling milk.

 

...and sugar :)P

(and for a treat, a drop or 2 of Irish Whiskey)

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

fr0g wrote:
Personally I think the best coffee is made with 100% boiling milk and instant! 

Either that, or a very strong espresso, mixed with an equal amount of boiling milk.

Somehow, that took me back to my grandmother making

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

fr0g wrote:

hammill wrote:
I would mostly agree with you, apart from pointing out that coffee is black - anything else is an abomination.

 

Ah, you see, coffee is purely subjective. As far as I know(I could be wrong), there is no objective data available on the taste.

Personally I think the best coffee is made with 100% boiling milk and instant! 

Either that, or a very strong espresso, mixed with an equal amount of boiling milk.

 

...and sugar :)P

(and for a treat, a drop or 2 of Irish Whiskey)

No problem with the Whiskey
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Andrew Everard wrote:

fr0g wrote:
Personally I think the best coffee is made with 100% boiling milk and instant! 

Either that, or a very strong espresso, mixed with an equal amount of boiling milk.

Somehow, that took me back to my grandmother making

 

Hellfire, that stuff was disgusting.   

Apple lossless - Netgear Nighthawk - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40.  

AVI ADM 9T used in my wife's system

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Andrew Everard wrote:

fr0g wrote:
Personally I think the best coffee is made with 100% boiling milk and instant! 

Either that, or a very strong espresso, mixed with an equal amount of boiling milk.

Somehow, that took me back to my grandmother making

My Gran made Mellow Birds instant. My dad always said. "That's terrible coffee". I quite liked it, although never said Smile

I should try that Camp stuff if it's available.

 

Horlicks time now though.

Wink

 

 

 

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

andyjm wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

However, to suggest that anyone on this planet can actually hear a difference between 'audio' (actually, data) carried by USB cables is for me, in all probability, unlikely. I tend to deal with science and facts. For me, what is relevant is what is happening at either end of the USB cable. I kind of know about this stuff.

 

James,

Knowing a bit about what happens at the ends of a USB cable myself, I would question your science and facts. 

If the USB cable is simply carrying async data, where the source and sink have flow control ability and sink timing is independent of the source clock, and the USB cable is not supplying power to the sink, then I would agree with your stance.  

If however (as I believe is more common) the USB cable is being asked also to supply clean, low impedance power to the sink, and / or stable, jitter free timing information, then I think that there is a chance that poor quality cables MAY be able to impact the sound quality.

What is your view on this?

Here's my view.

USB cables carry electricity, not audio signals.

Assuming at least a basic level of quality control, the cable manufacturers would batch test the cables to ensure that the cables did their job to specification. That specification being to be capable of all the types of data and electrical transfer possible on the USB bus.

So the cables either meet spec or not, if not, they are not properly designed and can be ruled out of the equation.

Properly designd doesn't mean expensive, as this type of cable construction is simple and cheap, needing very little conductor material, ie usually the most expensive bit.

This is how things work from a basic manufacturing standpoint, no magic, nothing particulary high tech, just good old fashioned quality control.

I see where you are coming from, but as is usual from the 'accessories' department of hifi in particular, much is made of nothing. Non existent, or inconsequential problems are expanded and presented as some sort of real issue that will corrupt and compromise audio reproduction. Jitter is one such problem (or not as the case may be). These non issues are magnified by marketing departments and presented as a problem that needs a solution, that solution usually involving some sort of pseudo science to convince the punter that he needs to resolve these non issues and spend silly amounts of money.

If these problems are actually evident in anyones system, then the design of the offending components is already horribly compromised and no end of foo is going to fix it.

 

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

chebby wrote:

Alan Shaw is playing a slightly dangerous game by 'pimping' his speakers with expensive cables whilst - at the same time - telling his customers that they make no difference and it was just done for 'marketing reasons'. Would have been better to leave the cables alone and select some fancy 'special edition'' veneers instead.

 

Absolutely. +1

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Overdose wrote:

chebby wrote:

Alan Shaw is playing a slightly dangerous game by 'pimping' his speakers with expensive cables whilst - at the same time - telling his customers that they make no difference and it was just done for 'marketing reasons'. Would have been better to leave the cables alone and select some fancy 'special edition'' veneers instead.

 

Absolutely. +1

I don't think he had a choice:

Bodfish wrote:

The HUG moderator on the thread linked above goes on to say that some market distributors mandate the use of 'fancy' wiring in their production runs.  As a manufacturer, seems to me it would be foollish not to ceed to such a request regardless of your personal views.

I suppose he could have chosen not to sell products in those particular markets at all...

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Well, as it happens, a new set of gloss veneers are available too.

Not sure I understand your last comment pauln.  I suppose he could also have cut off his nose to spite his face?

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Bodfish wrote:

Well, as it happens, a new set of gloss veneers are available too.

Not sure I understand your last comment pauln.  I suppose he could also have cut off his nose to spite his face?

Just that he could have said 'No - I won't compromise my beliefs' and consequently lost that section of the market.

However, as he's a businessman, he didn't do that, he gave the customers what they wanted but at the same time was completely honest about the worthlessness of the fancy internal wiring.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Just thought I`d throw this one into the mix !!

 

 

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-diamond-usb-to-ipodipadiphone-cable-5m-p-5598.html#.UT4Qd9Z7K84

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

basshound wrote:

Just thought I`d throw this one into the mix !!

 

 

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-diamond-usb-to-ipodipadiphone-cable-5m-p-5598.html#.UT4Qd9Z7K84

That is just wonderful!  I especially liked "The difference you hear between solders ..."  ROFL

Chris

Marantz PM8005 / SA8005 / KEF R700s / AKG K702

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

One concept you need to learn about:

"Expectation bias"

Look it up. It will save money to spend on that baby.

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