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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

andyjm wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

 The actual timing of the 1s and 0s doesn't matter either because the receiving device can store the incoming signal in a buffer and take it out at the correct rate.  This is why CD players in cars don't suffer from the movement of the car.

Does your DAC do this? Very few do.

Most rely on slaving their clock to the input bitstream.

 

Yep I know.  I just mentioned the possibility because it is there.

Chris

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

pauln wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

Do people here actually known what a digital signal is?  Basically it's a string of 1s and 0s and that's all represented by + and - voltages.  Now as long as a cable doesn't convert 1s into 0s or vice versa, and it would have to be a pretty s**t cable to do that, the receiving device can recover the original signal completely.  There is a piece of maths called "Shannon's Theorem" that proves this and that's been known for what must be over 50 years now.

This imperviousness to signal degredation is why CDs don't suffer (in general) from the type of pops and clicks you can get from vinyl and why DAB radio doesn't get the type of interference FM radio can get.  The actual timing of the 1s and 0s doesn't matter either because the receiving device can store the incoming signal in a buffer and take it out at the correct rate.  This is why CD players in cars don't suffer from the movement of the car.

So as long as a USB or any other digital cable delivers the 1s and 0s in a form where they can be recognised as such it doesn't actually matter what it does to the signal.  After all you can download Gigabytes of computer information down a USB cable and it all gets to the other end in perfect condition and a digitised music signal is identical in nature.

So any talk of cables being able to modify the nature of a digital signal in some systematic way, for example enhancing the sound stage or providing deeper bass, is on a par with believing in the tooth fairy.

As I said before, some people will still hear differences between digital cables but what is going on is going on in their heads not in any objective world.

Chris

So you're saying that a wire isn't like coffee in a cup to which you can add milk or sugar to alter the taste??

 

Now you're just being silly. How are we expected to understand how these science thingies work without valid analogies such as these?

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

BronC wrote:

I'm sure that if you were to give me $600 I could make you a USB cable that you could hear a difference between it and a "standard" cable when you streamed digital audio or music

I would make it with material of such a high resistance that the data transfer rate would be so slow that just enough data would get through in sufficient time to be processed for you to hear or see something but most of it would be lost

We must not confuse data transfer with data streaming.  Streaming has a time element involved.  The data is useless if it arrives too late.

How the lack of data manifests itself to the listener or viewer is probably in poorer SQ or PQ.  How they describe this porrer quality is obviously subjective

I'm intrigued that you think increasing resistance would slow down the transfer rate rather than just attenuating the signal.

Chris

Marantz PM8005 / SA8005 / KEF R700s / AKG K702

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

[UNPUBLISHED - banned user]

paradiziac wrote:

El Hefe wrote:

And the main advice above is actually borrow and decide by yourself...

+1

I strongly disagree. I think the best advice is the truth, which is that digital cables have nothing to do with audio/video quality beyond them actually working, or not. There's no such thing as a better one in terms of performance, so why borrow one? What would one be deciding on?
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ifor wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

Sorry Ifor, what is your point?    :?

 

Apple lossless - Netgear Nighthawk - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40.  

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables.  Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish.  Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Borrow because the question by OP is related to cost of the cable.... To avoid him spending extreme amount of money unnecesarily.

This is hifi and music. Make a decision base on what one hears, not based on what other people hear, or whatever a 6 page long thread on 1s and 0s discussion trying to prove or whatever a review says. YMYD.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ifor wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

So you are saying WhatHiFi reviews are influenced by owners views?

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ifor wrote:

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables.  Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish.  Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

I think you should be asking why we should trust any WHF reviews if they gave favourable reviews of USB cables. I am certainly more favourably inclined to Roth products now I know he is not stupid.

 

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

hammill wrote:

ifor wrote:

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables.  Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish.  Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

I think you should be asking why we should trust any WHF reviews if they gave favourable reviews of USB cables. I am certainly more favourably inclined to Roth products now I know he is not stupid.

 

 

:grin:

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Well said hammill.  :clap:

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

BigH wrote:

So you are saying WhatHiFi reviews are influenced by owners views?

No, I didn't say that.

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ifor wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

Whatever it is, it isn't a Ratner moment, as he's not slagging off his own products.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

BenLaw wrote:

ifor wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

Whatever it is, it isn't a Ratner moment, as he's not slagging off his own products.

True, he's not, but nonetheless I think I'll follow them with less interest than before.

"Inspired" Manticore Mantra TT, Technics SL-7 TT, Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp.  Cyrus CD8SE.  iMac, Raspberry Pi c/w HiFiBerry Digi c/w Volumio or Rune Audio, Arcam rDAC.  Roksan Kandy LIII amp, Spendor A5 speakers.

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