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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

The_Lhc wrote:

The Connect has been proven to give a bit-perfect output,

It certainly passes the bit perfect test into my m-dac.
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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

eggontoast wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

The Connect has been proven to give a bit-perfect output,

It certainly passes the bit perfect test into my m-dac.

Huzzah!

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

The_Lhc wrote:
That was probably a Play:3 and isn't what's being discussed in this thread, we're (mostly) talking about the Connect, which has digital and analogue outputs for use with existing amplifiers, using the digital output into a DAC it'll sound pretty much the same as any other 16-bit digital source.

Fair enough I'll butt out of the convo. I only read the o/p's initial post, which to me was a comment generally about Sonos products, so I gave an opinion about the only Sonos product I've heard. I agree about the Connect. I'm pretty sure what I listened to though was the 5 not the 3; they had a smaller one there which I took to be the Play:3. I didn't listen to that; I don't think it was rigged up.
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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

I'm quite surprised. I think the play 3 is terrific for what it is. 

I have one in each bedroom. I really need to try them in stereo mode. 

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

MajorFubar wrote:
The_Lhc wrote:
That was probably a Play:3 and isn't what's being discussed in this thread, we're (mostly) talking about the Connect, which has digital and analogue outputs for use with existing amplifiers, using the digital output into a DAC it'll sound pretty much the same as any other 16-bit digital source.

 

Fair enough I'll butt out of the convo. I only read the o/p's initial post, which to me was a comment generally about Sonos products, so I gave an opinion about the only Sonos product I've heard. I agree about the Connect. I'm pretty sure what I listened to though was the 5 not the 3; they had a smaller one there which I took to be the Play:3. I didn't listen to that; I don't think it was rigged up.

I'm slightly surprised then, the Play:5 gets pretty decent reviews (and can be configured as a stereo pair but for double the price obviously but hey, it's active, ergo, must be the best sounding system ever!).

One other point, what amp and speakers would you recommend for £300 all-in then? Bear in mind you need to include a source as well...

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

I didn't mention source, I said amp and speakers Smile
As for which ones, well the newest budget speakers I've ever heard are the Q-Acoustics 2020, I thought they sounded brilliant, and the 'i' version won a WHF awardf last year. Amp? No idea, but £150 should find something that will drive them well.

Don't get me wrong I can see the market for them, but in SQ terms alone, I can't say I was moved. The ones I listened to were £300 each, so that's £600 for a stereo pair. I've been away from the new hifi scene for a while, but I'm confident that for £600 I could walk into a HiFi shop with the same money and put together a simple system which would blow them out the water sonically. But that's not the full story of course if you need the additional flexibility and features, and I appreciate that.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

MajorFubar wrote:
I didn't mention source, I said amp and speakers Smile

I know, but the Play series are amp, speakers AND source, in one package, so you need to include that in your price comparisons!

Quote:
As for which ones, well the newest budget speakers I've ever heard are the Q-Acoustics 2020, I thought they sounded brilliant, and the 'i' version won a WHF awardf last year. Amp? No idea, but £150 should find something that will drive them well. Don't get me wrong I can see the market for them, but in SQ terms alone, I can't say I was moved. The ones I listened to were £300 each, so that's £600 for a stereo pair. I've been away from the new hifi scene for a while, but I'm confident that for £600 I could walk into a HiFi shop with the same money and put together a simple system which would blow them out the water sonically. But that's not the full story of course if you need the additional flexibility and features, and I appreciate that.

I don't think I'd be moved by anything in PC World, I've stood in the big Curry's "demo" room and mucked about with various "proper" amp and speaker setups for quite some time and all I came away with was a ringing in my ears, it did nothing to help me tell one set of speakers from another.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

It's not really a good comparison. You buy Sonos for its functionality, its unfair to compare just amp & speakers. You'd have to get at least some type of streamer too. 

I've  just bought a play 3 for £209. Double and that's £418. So you'd need to buy a streamer, amp and speakers. More clutter. A pair of play 3s would make a simple solution for a bedroom / bedsit. 

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

In answer to the OP, Sonos devices use WiFi to create a MESH network.  This is involves each device in the MESH receiving and rebroadcasting the WiFi signal.  While it is more robust than simple point to point WiFi, it takes up hardware and WiFi bandwidth resources.  As a result, the current Sonos architechture won't cope with HiRes.  Sonos would have to launch a separate range for HiRes that wouldn't fit with the current range, and I guess they don't see the market for it.  Much angst on the Sonos forum about this.

As for audiophile, the 'Connect' has a middling reputation for jitter, over 200pS RMS if I recall correctly. If your DAC is sensitive to jitter, then this may matter.  If your DAC is insensitive to jitter, then the connect will be just as good as any other streamer you might buy.

Why would you want to change the power supply?  

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

bigboss wrote:
I queried Sonos' price as well before buying one: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/wi-fi/why-is-sonos-so-expensive But after I bought it, I realised what a serious bit of tech this is. Now I don't think it's expensive at all. It's the technology you pay for.

I'm still querying it Smile I'd still love Sonos, still can't justify it. The speakers seem like fair value (although I was also disappointed with the sound of both of them) but the Connect just baffles me. I'm easily baffled though.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

bigblue235 wrote:

bigboss wrote:
I queried Sonos' price as well before buying one: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/wi-fi/why-is-sonos-so-expensive But after I bought it, I realised what a serious bit of tech this is. Now I don't think it's expensive at all. It's the technology you pay for.

I'm still querying it Smile I'd still love Sonos, still can't justify it. The speakers seem like fair value (although I was also disappointed with the sound of both of them) but the Connect just baffles me. I'm easily baffled though.

Depends really. Many of my friends raise their eyebrows when I say how much the two ZP90s I have cost, but then for music playback, they're by far the most used bits of kit I have so easily worth the price.

 

The owls are not what they seem...

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

:bounce:

i agree completely with The Prof; the connects are now my main source of music, and having instant access to 700cds has helped me rediscover my music.

i have a connect attached to main hifi, av setup and kitchen 'compact' hifi.

The bug then arrievd and I use a play5 as a 'portable' source for other rooms/garden

If you have a decent amount of existing 'hifi' equipment, the connect allows access without you having to throw anything away; it just adds an additional (and very useable) source to your current set up.

it is so user friendlly, and i can't tell the difference between the connect and my Cd player (admittedly my cd player is quite aged!)

it is addictive:help:

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

bigblue235 wrote:

I'm still querying it Smile I'd still love Sonos, still can't justify it. The speakers seem like fair value (although I was also disappointed with the sound of both of them) but the Connect just baffles me. I'm easily baffled though.

I think every prospective purchaser of Sonos equipment thinks this, I know I did but I took the plunge anyway. After you have used one for a while that little question of price disappears. Not sure what the Play:3 sounds like but I have an S5 or PLAY:5 as its called now and the sound reproduction from it is very good indeed for its size. I wouldn't contemplate using one or two for a serious Hi-Fi setup though but they are ideal for making a bit of good quality sound around the house. I have one on the landing and it's more than good enough to provide music for the whole of the upstairs, but like I said, they are not for a front room setup that's what the ZP90 (connect) is for. The on board DAC is good enough for most set ups, it's small, well specified and a breeze to use
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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

1 the market/profit margin for deleloping/marketing these products is just not worth it.

 

2. If you play from 16/44 source thats more than good enough for the level of components in the connect. No way you would hear the difference on a Play 3/5. 95%+ market use mp3's/spotify etc

 

3. Bandwith/wireless issues sending Hi res data.

 

I think I will buy a connect for my living room Hifi in the summer andpaybe a play3 or 5 for kitchen/garden in summer .. I used to think the connect was overpricved but the fuctionality, especialy on the iPad app is just flawless.. Thats what you are paying for! You could pick up my Cambridge Audio 540a + 540c + speakers second hand for under £300. So that (or similar NAD/rotel/marantz etc) plus a connect would be a very nice setup for under £500ish. I heard the Play 3 and 5 and I think they're are both good at what they do.. Basier than you'd think and a lot more refined sounding than most £200-£300 iPod docks IMO.. I think the sub is ovepriced..

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

Now that Squeeze has gone the way of the dodo, Sonos have the mid range multi room field to themselves and can charge whatever the market will bear. Although not directly comparable, the Raspberry Pi is not that different to the ZP90 (if anything it is more powerful), and can be had for about £30. It would not be unreasonable to assume that the BOM costs for the ZP90 are similar, so even with a 100% retailers margin, Sonos should be doing quite well out of the ZP90.

The unknown is of course the volumes Sonos ship and the development costs that need to be amortised.  A £30 device that costs £1M to develop and only sells 1000 units still costs £1000 to break even.

 

 

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