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RE: just read something

Can you link that thread here ellisdj? 

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Boss Man - if you look you

Boss Man - if you look you will find ..... Smile

I have just taken this from it, - I didnt know that about the Oppos second hdmi output - maybe my suggestion was wrong. Really dont know the player

"I've found there can be noticeable differences (if you know what you're looking for) between different players even when display chain calibrated for the different players. At last count I'd assessed about 16 models in the £4.5k to £200 range. The difference is typically due to video manipulation to differentiate image look and/or some type of error.

One of the first players I noticed this on was the Denon 2500. It appeared to apply some type of by default luminance exaggeration to create the illusion of a sharper image in a similar may to the sharpness setting level 1 or 2 does on the QDEO Oppo's. It's also be proven by looking at the raw HDMI data output that different players can produce different data output even when using the same 1080p/24 content and output setting. Here's an example - Sony BDP-S580 3D Blu-ray Player - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

The affect of colour space and HDMI Deep Colour setting format will depend on the combination of products. Product may internally processes using a native format that all other formats are converted to. The conversion process isn't lossless and this can affect the image. Usually high frequency chroma (colour) resolution is lost.

Sometimes the difference are tiny and sometimes they are easier to observe especially on a larger image"

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Interesting! Although it does

Interesting! Although it does contradict AV forums review:

"As with the 3D performance, the digital nature of the content means that any Blu-ray player capable of outputting 1080p should be identical to any other player over HDMI, assuming of course the manufacturer isn't doing anything they shouldn't. We checked and thankfully Oppo have resisted the temptation to fiddle with the 1080p output and, as a result, the BDP-103 again delivered a flawless performance. We also checked there was no backdoor processing going on by comparing source direct to the 1080p output and once again everything was perfect. The BDP-103 correctly output 1080p video without any issues as demonstrated by the multiburst and zone plate patterns on our Spears & Munsil disc."

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I think you mis-read that BB

I think you mis-read that BB - he is not talking about the Oppo - he is talking about differences in players in general

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

That is interesting.

I wonder if the same could be true of my Cambridge Audio 651BD's first HDMI output, since Oppo and CA BDPs share some DNA?

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

ellisdj wrote:
I think you mis-read that BB - he is not talking about the Oppo - he is talking about differences in players in general

Yes. The only time there will be a difference between players is when the player itself adds extra processing. Otherwise, all are identical in performance. You can turn off the extra processing in most players.

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

bigboss wrote:

You can turn off the extra processing in most players.

Though some players might force processing in ways that don't necessarily show up on the video test patterns used for hardware reviews.

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

strapped for cash wrote:

bigboss wrote:

You can turn off the extra processing in most players.

Though some players might force processing in ways that don't necessarily show up on the video test patterns used for hardware reviews.

For example? If it doesn't show up in video test patterns, can you notice it?

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

bigboss wrote:

For example?

I'm speaking hypothetically. I only read updates to this thread in the last half hour.

bigboss wrote:

If it doesn't show up in video test patterns, can you notice it?

Potentially, yes. There's no reason why test patterns would catch every potential instance of processing taking place. For instance, contrast or colour boosting wouldn't influence patterns testing for jaggies or aliasing.

Patterns are only designed to test certain aspects of video reproduction.

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

strapped for cash wrote:

bigboss wrote:

For example?

I'm speaking hypothetically. I only read updates to this thread in the last half hour.

bigboss wrote:

If it doesn't show up in video test patterns, can you notice it?

Potentially, yes. There's no reason why test patterns would catch every potential instance of processing taking place. For instance, contrast or colour boosting wouldn't influence patterns testing for jaggies or aliasing.

Patterns are only designed to test certain aspects of video reproduction.

Ok, but surely, there are objective tests to measure contrast and colour boosting?

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RE: Boss Man - if you look you

ellisdj wrote:
Boss Man - if you look you will find ..... Smile I have just taken this from it, - I didnt know that about the Oppos second hdmi output - maybe my suggestion was wrong. Really dont know the player "I've found there can be noticeable differences (if you know what you're looking for) between different players even when display chain calibrated for the different players. At last count I'd assessed about 16 models in the £4.5k to £200 range. The difference is typically due to video manipulation to differentiate image look and/or some type of error. One of the first players I noticed this on was the Denon 2500. It appeared to apply some type of by default luminance exaggeration to create the illusion of a sharper image in a similar may to the sharpness setting level 1 or 2 does on the QDEO Oppo's. It's also be proven by looking at the raw HDMI data output that different players can produce different data output even when using the same 1080p/24 content and output setting. Here's an example - Sony BDP-S580 3D Blu-ray Player - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity The affect of colour space and HDMI Deep Colour setting format will depend on the combination of products. Product may internally processes using a native format that all other formats are converted to. The conversion process isn't lossless and this can affect the image. Usually high frequency chroma (colour) resolution is lost. Sometimes the difference are tiny and sometimes they are easier to observe especially on a larger image"

 

Hi

 

I can't find the thread you are talking about?  I agree the Denon 2500 is different to the Oppo 103 both show a different picture from my experience.

 

Thanks for the info on the Oppo I will try out second HDMI.  I have heard different stories at different times with what it can and can't do but I was never really sure.  I will do some experimenting.  Cheers.

Home cinema system: Panasonic 50VT65 (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

Gadgets: iPad 2 and iPhone 4s.  Headphones: B&O H6.  Dab radio: Roberts Dreamtime.

 

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RE: I think you mis-read that BB

bigboss wrote:

Ok, but surely, there are objective tests to measure contrast and colour boosting?

To throw your own question back at you, for example? Smile

I'm guessing greyscale and colour accuracy could be remeasured across images output from different players, but I don't think Blu-ray players are tested this way, at least not as a standard test in technical reviews.  

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Hi GelOn page 1 you

Hi Gel
On page 1 you posted:
I have just compared my 71 with the Oppo 103, Cambridge Audio 751bd, Marantz 7007 and there was no difference. Oh yeah and Pioneer 55! Smile
Change of heart?
IMHO ellisdj is correct, taking care with optimising setup, cabling, TV calibration even mains conditioners Smile might make more difference than tiny PQ differences in BR output. Also no point in paying for a UD player if you are not going to use its CD/SACD/ audio capabilities.
There is an unexpected bonus with the UD7007 - superb Netflix HD streaming - worth the added cost alone IMHO.

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RE: Hi GelOn page 1 you

emperor's new clothes wrote:
Hi Gel On page 1 you posted: I have just compared my 71 with the Oppo 103, Cambridge Audio 751bd, Marantz 7007 and there was no difference. Oh yeah and Pioneer 55! Smile Change of heart? IMHO ellisdj is correct, taking care with optimising setup, cabling, TV calibration even mains conditioners Smile might make more difference than tiny PQ differences in BR output. Also no point in paying for a UD player if you are not going to use its CD/SACD/ audio capabilities. There is an unexpected bonus with the UD7007 - superb Netflix HD streaming - worth the added cost alone IMHO.

 

Huh?   :). No change in what I have seen.  Still the same.   :). 

Home cinema system: Panasonic 50VT65 (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

Gadgets: iPad 2 and iPhone 4s.  Headphones: B&O H6.  Dab radio: Roberts Dreamtime.

 

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There is a 7007 oppo 103 and

There is a 7007 oppo 103 and 105 group test going on at the minute.
Only by an amateur but he has a nice system - more than capable of showing any differences in both video and audio.

Think it will take him quite a long time to test it all so interested to know what he thinks

I want to do the same test here if anyone wants to lend me a 103/105.

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

Monitor Audio PL100, GXC 150, GXFX, SVS SB13 ULTRA

Custom Audio PC LPSU + Batts, JPLAY, JCAT and PPA Studio

Panny 65VT65, Marantz UD7007, Graham Slee Cables, Isotek, XLO

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