Great set up and very informative postings. I hope you find that perfect amp. Are you sure there's nowhere you could fit a P7?
Thank you Andy G XXX for reading! Much appreciated! Sadly in my current a/v cabinet there'd be room only for a very compact power amp (like Primare A30.7 or Nuforce MCH) and an equally compact processor. The P7 needs plenty room to breath, I'm thinking...
Current A/V equipment:
NUFORCE AVP-18 (processor/DAC) | NUFORCE MCH-300SEC7 (multichannel amplifier) | MONITOR AUDIO APEX (5.2 speaker system) | SAMSUNG LE-52B755 (tv) | DENON DBT-3313UD (disc transport) | NAIM UNITISERVE (music server) | SUPRA (cabling) | LOGITECH HARMONY 900 (universal remote) | NORDOST PULSAR POINTS (isolation feet)
love your system and taste
I'm seriously considering buying an apex system. Due to the cost I'll currently keep it at 3 speakers - left, right and center. I have some vintage for rears, some old B&W DM4 So I'm considering either 2 A10 & 1 A40 or 3 A40.
You wrote the sound of the A40 is slightly fuller than the A10. Do you think the difference between my suggestions will be significant, if I buy a sub? And worth the extra money? I have a quite small room, about 16-18sqm.
Also, you wrote something like your system was your only option, but why did'nt you consider 3 A40? Judging by your pictures it seems possible.
Hey knudsen I'm grateful you had a peek & for the nice compliments!
Certainly hope you decide to go for an Apex-system, and if you can you should definitely go for 3 x A40's in the front. You might want to consider using 2 x A10's for rear duties later on in that case? Best is always identical models all round though. Whichever combination you choose you'll still definitely need a subwoofer, as these speakers were meant to be set up that way. When used as a complete 5.1 system Apex really shine, as oppose to using them in conjunction with other kit, or separately. When they get to play together as one unified whole, that's when the magic happens! That's not to say one couldn't possibly enjoy using other kit but I think one will loose the whole point of a system like this which was designed to perform in unison.
Rest assured Apex will sound great also in smaller rooms (my room is around your size aswell). I actually prefer smaller rooms with sub/sat systems because there is little risk of "holes" in the soundstage when speakers front-back are placed somewhat closer together than they might be in a large listeningspace. May I ask what receiver/amplifer you aim to use to drive them?
I have not ruled out using the bigger A40 all round (5 of them, in other words) but it will be a slight challenge to integrate nicely, plus my first priority is to possibly find new electronics to drive them.
thanks for a very fullfilling reply
To tell the truth they are a bit above what I would normally buy, but I think I deserve a nice present for once Therefore I will have to make some shortcuts. My tv is nice, a 60" sony nx723, half a year old. Amplifier is a small marantz nr1601. For the last couple of years I had some proac tablette 50 signature, very nice smaller speakers. Tried them with a borrowed cambridge 840w, this is a super nice amp! Only it runs a bit hot. Later I used it with an audiolab 8000p. Until I realized I have to use some kind of equalizing (mostly bass gives problems, I guess this is mainly due to small room, and I live on the top floor so my walls are partly 45 degree angled). So I bought the marantz, and sound is better than ever after audyssey. So, I can see people are recommending big and quality amplifiers, but I am not so worried with the small marantz - it sounds pretty good to my ears, has quite a bit of muscle and anyway I can change it later, probably to a bigger marantz. I'm not sure what I will do about the sub, I would like to save some more money, and dont like the idea of using time finding cheap stuff I need to upgrade later. Expecting to find a used velodyne microvee or minivee, as I love their sizes and cannot play very loud/deep due to neighbours anyway.
Read somewhere else that you are in Sweden, right? I'm in Cph. I found 2 dealers for the apex in denmark, a10 = 2800DKK and a40 = 4300DKK. Played the stores out and got a best offer for 3 x a40 = 11000DKK. Think I'll press the trigger tonight ! Got an offer for a used a10 (white) for 1300DKK, seems like a nice offer but hmm, there are so many more to find if I go that route. Its quite rare that a complete set is for sale used.
My reason for going 3 x a40 is both sound and depth of speakers - a40 is only 10cm and a10 is 14 + the stupid (sorry, but why must it be so long) arm I believe? Based on looks alone I would in fact buy a10's, I think they are much "sweeter" looking than the a40's.
Oh, I read somewhere that a40 has 2 frequencies where is goes from one speakerunit to the next (dont know the english word for this, in danish "delefilterfrekvens"). a10 naturally only 1. The lower one was 600hz. If this is true, it must mean one of the 5,5" units creates the bass, and the other the upper bass. But then the sound would not be symmetrical when placed horisontally - I thought this was a criterium for being a center?? I dont get it, but maybe it was an error on the homepage.
Edit: saw it on MA's own homepage: http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/apex/a40/#/specification
Am I missing something ?
knudsen - hello "neighbour" cool you are Danish! de e dejligt
Seems you've found good deals. I have no personal experience of Marantz, but it is my understanding they are usually not far off from Denon and their basic soundcharacter, even if it may differ between models. As you say, you could always upgrade electronics at a later date. Just remember that Apex will grow the better amplification you feed them. One will not get the full benifit of these speakers with lesser kit. Please also take the subwoofer AW-12 into consideration. It's pricey, yes, but that subwoofer and the satellites are amazingly well partnered with each other in ways few other sub/sat systems are (and I've heard many!).
I think both the A10 and A40 are lookers, only the tabletop stands for the A10's are rather awful IMO. So therefor I don't use them at all.
In terms of the technicality of the driver configuration of the A40 - what it does infact mean in theory I don't know (you could always e-mail Monitor Audio and ask them!) but in practice I think the A40 sounds identical regardless if you place it vertically or horizontally. My dealer have demoed a standard 5.1 set up and a 5.2 set up with just A40's and and I was not distracted by any audible differences (and I'm normally sensitive to such things). There is between the A40 and A10 though, but it's never really distracting. Much thanks to the Audyssey calibration they play extremely well together. Panning effects (particularly sensitive with voices) are near perfect. I'd switch to all A40's only to get that 'fuller' sound with more impact.
2 x 140mm (5 1/2") C-CAM® mid/bass driver with RST® technology.1 x 25mm (1") C-CAM® gold dome tweeter.
I find it fascinating, how big a role psychology plays when we talk about equipment and good sound. Before I bought the marantz I read so many threads that stated marantz was the more musical brother to denon. In the apex thread I believe almost everyone favors the denon? Of course a denon could have advantages with the specific speakers, but I think there are other mechanisms at play
I'm probably colored myself too. I'm pretty sure I would have a bit negative bias towards a denon, if I heard one, compared to a marantz.
I saw you have tested so many expensive receivers, and they all fail compared to your denon. If you ask me, I find it quite unlikely you will find anything better than the denon, because this has become your reference, both conscious and subconscious, and it has a quality where it has no obvious faults, so there is really not much to correct - only do differently.
I dont mean to be rude, I believe this is how we all work :grin:
I mean, people hear apex'es sounding better after 600 hours, but MA claims they are run in after 100-200 if I remember correctly. How come? I believe people get more used to the sound - thats it. Your perception changes.
If you really want a new receiver, I think you will have to get more acquainted with it than just a couple of days or even 1-2 weeks.
You bring up some very valid points! Things I too have thought about, so in essence there is no reason for me not to agree with you! When you get to this level of interest for home entertainment electronics there is definitely a bit of conscious and subconsciousness at play. I never wanted to make it sound though as if my Denon model is the receiver to beat them all and that I'm not open for a change (if I wasn't I wouldn't continue going through the trouble of finding a replacement). The AVR-3808A is not a top high-end model after all, and the model is 4 years old. If I'd have it my way (going by the machines I've tested the last 14 months) I'd have the music reproduction of the Primare SPA 22 with the movie reproduction of the Onkyo and the versatility and convenience of the Denon. Read into that what you wish! hehe
At this stage I have to say though that getting acquainted with a new machine for a week or so is enough for me to determind if it has potential of staying in my system or not. Besides, when I get a new machine home I always make sure I have plenty of time to devote to it.
Hey, I've also heard that Marantz is the supposed more musical brother to Denon, and I wouldn't be surprised if I found that to be true if I got to test one.
RickyDeg, where is your second aw-12 placed?
Monitor audio Apex5.1, Denon AVR-4311, Dune SmartHD1,Playstation3(FATboy), Synology ds411+II(ultrasilent, fans modificated by me),Chord Odyssey2 cables. will buy panasonic plasma wow
I've been moving the second AW-12 around a few times, though location spots are limited in my room. A while ago I found the ideal placement - in the back of the room, left side of the sofa near my second bureau which creates a "corner" for it. To cable this subwoofer was a challenge as I had to run the subwoofercable up and around the windows (some 14 meters of cable total) but it works!
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