Have your say & ask the experts!

What will the difference be......ordering a Sony 4K TV using the Sony BDP-S790 4K Player but using Blu-ray Discs and not 4K Blu-ray Discs?

115 replies [Last post]
ontheline's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 21

hey all

 

like probaly many others i can't wait to get my hands on Sony's new 65'' 4K 3D TV. I have already pre ordered mine and already own the Sony BDP-S790, the question is, as the S790 can play Blu-ray and upscale to 4K would there be any point in spending more money on say for example The Amazing Spiderman, i already own this on on 3D Blu Ray and as far as i know this is one of the first to be released on 4K, so playing The Amazing Spiderman (blu ray) through my 4K TV and  my 4K player is it true that  there would be no need to upgrade to the 4K release of Spiderman as my player is already upscalling it to 4K, OR would there be a good difference feeding the 4K player with the 4K disc (released in june) instead of the blu ray version i already own?

party time!

bigboss's picture
Online
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11856
RE: What will the difference be......

4K TVs will upscale pictures to 4K in any case, so it won't matter if your blu ray player is able to upscale to 4K or not. With regards to "Mastered in 4K" blu rays, it sounds pretty pointless. Still waiting for reviews to confirm if there is indeed an improvement. I suspect it's just a marketing hype.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3848972/sony-planning-to-release-a-range-of-4k-blu-rays

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

ontheline's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 21
RE: What will the difference be......

thanks boss think you may be right.Smile

Son_of_SJ's picture
Offline
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 1089
RE: What will the difference be......

Perhaps someone knows the answer to this please. If you have, say, a 4K  65" television, and an ordinary Full HD 65" television, feeding them the same Full HD Blu-Ray (which I presume the 4K display would upscale) would you actually see the difference, if the two TVs were side by side? And, how close would you have to be to the TVs to notice the difference? Would any difference still be noticeable at about nine feet away? I genuinely don't know the answer to this question. Or do you have to go to monster display sizes, like 84" for instance, to notice any difference between Full HD and (upscaled) 4K?

bigboss's picture
Online
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11856
RE: What will the difference be......

1) If you feed 1080p content, the 4K 65-inch TV will have to upscale it to 4K, while the full HD 65-inch TV can display it natively at 1080p. So it will be better on a 1080p TV.

2) No idea what happens with "mastered in 4K" releases.

3) If you feed 4K content, the 4K TV will display it natively, while the 1080p TV will downscale it. Naturally, 4K TV will be far better here.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

bigboss's picture
Online
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11856
RE: What will the difference be......

Also, SD content will look terrible on a 4K TV, due to the amount of upscaling involved.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

f1only's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Apr 2010
Posts: 1060
RE: What will the difference be......

bigboss wrote:

Also, SD content will look terrible on a 4K TV, due to the amount of upscaling involved.

Like dvd on a Blu-ray player upscaled?

__________________

TV: Sony KDL-46HX853 ( calibrated ), Virgin Tivo Box, BD Players: Sony BDP-S790,  PS3, PS4 & Panasonic DMR-BWT700

A/V Amp: Yamaha RX-V1073

Speakers: Dali Ikon 6 Front L/R, Dali Ikon 1's Surround, Dali Ikon Vocal 2 Centre, B&W ASW610 Subwoofer.

My System

Sony Bravia 46HX853 Calibrated Settings

bigboss's picture
Online
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11856
RE: What will the difference be......

f1only wrote:

bigboss wrote:

Also, SD content will look terrible on a 4K TV, due to the amount of upscaling involved.

Like dvd on a Blu-ray player upscaled?

Even worse!

576i will have to be upscale to fill an ultra HD (4K) screen.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

ontheline's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 21
RE: What will the difference be......

but it should make a considerable difference. sd content looks great upscaled

bigboss's picture
Online
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11856
RE: What will the difference be......

Upscaling does not mean better quality. It means filling up a picture designed for lower resolution screens to a higher resolution screen. The result will always be worse in a higher resolution screen when compared with a lower resolution one. The quality of scaling is important to minimise the deterioration in picture quality. But the deterioration will happen.

The picture has to stretch to fill up the extra pixels in the higher resolution screen. The more it has to stretch, the worse will the results be.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

ontheline's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 21
RE: What will the difference be......

bigboss wrote:

Upscaling does not mean better quality. It means filling up a picture designed for lower resolution screens to a higher resolution screen. The result will always be worse in a higher resolution screen when compared with a lower resolution one. The quality of scaling is important to minimise the deterioration in picture quality. But the deterioration will happen.

The picture has to stretch to fill up the extra pixels in the higher resolution screen. The more it has to stretch, the worse will the results be.

 

but like for example the sony s790 blu ray player and most other blu ray players it upscales sd content to near blu ray quality on a full hd 1080p screen, so on a 4k screen sd content dvds should look great or much better like blu ray does on 1080p full hd screens?

 

ontheline's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 21
RE: What will the difference be......

bigboss wrote:

Upscaling does not mean better quality. It means filling up a picture designed for lower resolution screens to a higher resolution screen. The result will always be worse in a higher resolution screen when compared with a lower resolution one. The quality of scaling is important to minimise the deterioration in picture quality. But the deterioration will happen.

The picture has to stretch to fill up the extra pixels in the higher resolution screen. The more it has to stretch, the worse will the results be.

Sony BDP-S790: 4K support4K, ultra high-definition is one of the hot topics at the moment, and the Sony can currently claim to be the only 4K upscaling player on the market. This means it can take a picture, be it standard definition or high-def, and output an image of 3840 x 2160 pixels to a compatible display.

u

 

this is from the review on here, so sd definition should look great on a 4k screen( the compatible display ) using this 4k player? maybe if a standard dvd player was used to feed the discs to a 4k it would look worse but the s790 will output the the better quality image to the 4k screen be it sd or hi def content?   are you saying when i get the 4k tv hook up my s790 and stick in a standard dvd it will look terrible?

Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 4305
RE: What will the difference be......

bigboss wrote:

Upscaling does not mean better quality. It means filling up a picture designed for lower resolution screens to a higher resolution screen. The result will always be worse in a higher resolution screen when compared with a lower resolution one. The quality of scaling is important to minimise the deterioration in picture quality. But the deterioration will happen.

The picture has to stretch to fill up the extra pixels in the higher resolution screen. The more it has to stretch, the worse will the results be.

Gotta agree with BB here. Upscaling can't make lower resolution material look better; extra detail isn't added or retrieved.

The greater the upscaling task (i.e. the greater the difference between the source and display resolution), the ropier the results. Upscaling SD to fill a large 4K screen won't look pretty, however sophisticated the scaling chip and algorithm.   

As I argued on another thread, there's little sense in buying a 4K TV right now. The content simply isn't there and it's better to match your display's resolution with the majority of content you'll be watching.

Always wait for the content before buying the hardware. It's a false economy the other way round.

__________________

Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)

Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112

ontheline's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 21
RE: What will the difference be......

strapped for cash wrote:

bigboss wrote:

Upscaling does not mean better quality. It means filling up a picture designed for lower resolution screens to a higher resolution screen. The result will always be worse in a higher resolution screen when compared with a lower resolution one. The quality of scaling is important to minimise the deterioration in picture quality. But the deterioration will happen.

The picture has to stretch to fill up the extra pixels in the higher resolution screen. The more it has to stretch, the worse will the results be.

Gotta agree with BB here. Upscaling can't make lower resolution material look better; extra detail isn't added or retrieved.

The greater the upscaling task (i.e. the greater the difference between the source and display resolution), the ropier the results. Upscaling SD to fill a large 4K screen won't look pretty, however sophisticated the scaling chip and algorithm.   

As I argued on another thread, there's little sense in buying a 4K TV right now. The content simply isn't there and it's better to match your display's resolution with the majority of content you'll be watching.

Always wait for the content before buying the hardware. It's a false economy the other way round.

 

 

is says it on the s790 review that it takes sd or hi def material and upscales it to uhd quality with a compatible screen.

mr malarky's picture
Offline
Joined: 4 Apr 2009
Posts: 837
RE: What will the difference be......

Hi ontheline, upscaling can be like putting brandy in your coffee; a little can be quite nice (ie up scaling a DVD into an HD ready/720p 42" screen, where there's very little up scaling being done and the screen isn't so big as to magnify what is being done), but too much and it can go horribly wrong - ie up scaling a standard def DVD into a 4k 55" screen. No scaler can upscale standard def content to "UHD" quality, in the same way listening to a film in Proligic II will ever sound as good as Dolby Digital - the source data just isn't there to begin with; the scaler is just using using software to plug extra pixels of the same/similar colour/luminescence in between the pixels contained in the source material, in order to provide enough data to fill the screen.

Or to put it another way, why would everyone have gone out and brought BluRay players and replaced their DVD collections with Bluray discs, if upscaling DVD players could genuinely upscale DVD's to BluRay quality?

__________________

Lounge: Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B (calibrated), Pioneer SC-LX75, Denon DPB-2012, Sky-HD1TB, PS4, Xbox 360, Apple-TV, Atacama Equinox AV stand, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, RXC, RX-FX, RXW-12, Anti-Mode 8033c Sub EQ. Kitchen: Pioneer XC-HM81, Monitor Audio Bronze BX2. Bedroom: Samsung UE37D6510, Samsung BD-C5900, Sky-HD, Pioneer N-50, Rotel RC-03 (pre-amp), Rotel RB-9708X (power-amp), Mordaunt-Short MS914

BenLaw's picture
Offline
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5935
RE: What will the difference be......

Agree with the principle BB and strapped put forward. My only question is, will it really matter, if you have a comparable screen size? 4k has 4x as many pixels as HD (2x horizontally and 2x vertically) so for each pixel on say a 65" HD TV you have four pixels on a 4k TV. Each set of four pixels on the 4k tv will take up the same area as one pixel on the HD TV if the screen size is the same. So if that one pixel shows exactly the same colour as the four pixels covering the same area, won't it look exactly the same?

__________________

HiFi   /   A/V   /   Bedroom