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Glacialpath's picture
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Re: Rocking a PS3 and PS4

Hello again Billybifocals. Cool name by the way.

My suggestion to nugget2014 for setting his sharpness to 0 was because he has a Sony TV. You are right Samsung TV and some other brands have the sharpness neutral at 50 in which case it shouldn't be touched.

Not sure if you know why sharpness was added to TVs so here goes. It's only for the NTSC market and SD content only. Its there so people could turn it up and add chroma to make up for the fact they only really had half a picture. You have to excuse me as I don't know where you are from. But for us with PAL our standard Def picture has more lines than PAL so we never needed it. Of course most of the TVs made today are from the NTSC part of the world so I guess that's why they still add it to TV setting. The fact you imported a Disney disc is the reason why it has Sharpnes test patterns on it. Of course if you are happy with the setting at 70 then thats your personal preference. To me if the TV needs Chroma added to the incoming signal then theres something wrong.

This is why I don't agree with people putting up their setting as some of them are personal preference, which is fine and if people don't like them then of course they won't use them. Also each room and even a display pannel of the same model are different so no one set of setting will be the same.

What are the display settings of your PS3 and PS4 and the Video setting too? I'm sure you've set them right before using your set up disc but I'm curious if you don't mind.

I can understand why you don't like it but the film grain is intentional on 300. It's part of the film grading. Obviously most of the film was shot on Blue or Green screen. The same goes for Expendables 1 and 2 it's all been added in post production so you are actually getting rid of some of the picture detail and clarity, but again it's your porogitive and your TV. 

Check how clean and detailed the Lionsgate Key logo is at the beginning  of the film with the Digital and MPEG4 setting off.

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ps3 settings etc

Hi, thanks Smile

It was a college nickname that stuck lol.

The ps3 is set up as followed:

"BD/DVD Cinema Conversion" is Normal.

"BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)" is "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr"

"BD 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI)" is Automatic

"BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control" is off

"BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI)" is Linear PCM

"BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital)" is Bitstream.

RGB Full Range (HDMI) is Full

Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI) is On.

Overview
Video Settings
BD Internet: "Allow"
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr" for TVs, "RGB" for PC Monitors
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control: "Off"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): "Linear PCM"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital): "Bitstream"
Display Settings
RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Full"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On".

With these above settings I see no abnormalities using the various calibration discs ive used.

I live in the UK but every tv ive had over the years, include all tube tvs, have all had sharpness knobs or settings.

And yeah due to the torrent of posts on here I thought you had advised someone to change the sharpness to 0, as this thread is meant to be discussing the samsung tv, I didn't see any mention of a Sony tv so my bad.

Yeah 50 seems to be the default sharpness settings on samsung tvs, just as the colour is.

I can appreciate that some amount of "detail" is lost by eliminating film grain but I dont consider video noise to contribute to my enjoyment of a film. The only time I haven't minded the film grain was on The Pacific and Band of Brothers series, they look amazing.

By having the MPEG and other noise reduction settings set to auto I just find that peoples faces and surroundings look much more realistic. They dont look like youre watching a "soap opera" as a few people have commented, nor do they look like waxwork dummies. I watched I am Legend yesterday and there is an incredible amount of detail in Will Smiths face, despite me having stuff set to Auto.

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Re: PS3 Settings etc

Ah cool. Most people don't know about the display setting and don't have the Whites at full and Dynamic range on and all the other rubbish that should be off.

Yeah they added Sharpness to CRTs too for the same reason most of them came from Asia and it seems like a gimmic and people think they are getting a clearer picture.

Band Of Brothers and The Pacific are awesome. I think B.O.B. is better than the Pacific though.

I noticed you have the HDMI audio output set to PCM. Do you have and AV receiver? If so you want it set to Bitstream so the AVR does the decoding. and amp will do a better job than the internal decoder of the PS3.

I have to say I haven't seen the pic on the Samsung you guys have so without having a play with the settings I can't truly comment on how it looks on what settings. I'm just going by what I know about TV settings.

Glad you enjoy your settings and have managed to deal with film grain to your liking Smile

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Ive been curious as to what

Ive been curious as to what everyone is talking about so I have just now booted up my PC via my tv. Sharpness is currently set to 5 (As the test disc I used showed over that it started to 'scew' the test screen)
The picture is absolutely pin sharp with HD photos (Staggeringly so). I would seriously check your settings if 70 is what you claim to be about right. I even have to ask : is it the same tv?

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billybifocals wrote:

billybifocals wrote:

HDMI Black level needs to be set to Normal. Dont set it to "Low" because you lose a ridiculous amount of detail in darker scenes. I accidentally had it switched to Low instead of Normal while I was watching "The Desolation of Smaug" and kicked myself halfway through it, I wondered why the screen was so frigging dark, the film was almost unwatchable because of that.

 

Assuming you're watching everything through your ps3, its because you have set RGB FULL on the PS3. Thats good for games, but all films will be converted into FULL RGB (Any conversion processes going on are generally bad)

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erm yeah

It is the same tv that everyone is banging on about, im not insane.

So you've booted your pc via your tv? What's that got to do with the price of bread? Im not sat 2 feet from my tv, im sat about 3 times the height of the screen, which is where im meant to be sat for this screen size... sure if I sat on top of the screen I wouldn't need to have the sharpness set at 70, I could probably leave it at 50...

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bitstream vs PCM

Hi, yes Ive got a decent AV receiver (Sony STRDH810) and I did used to have the PS3 output as Bitstream but in made the audio far too quiet and I noticed that certain sounds on certain tracks weren't even audible. I think its a bug that Sony unfortunately never bothered to fix, some kind of incompatibility with my reviever and the PS3. PCM sounds mint regardless on my Boston Acoustics surround sound system. The sub is equally ridiculous.

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RGB Full Range (HDMI)

The reason why ive got RGB Full Range (HDMI) set to Full is because "Limited" delivers a more subdued, albeit more naturalistic, color range, while "Full" produces both brighter and richer tones on both ends of the spectrum. As a result of the "Full" spectrum, many intermediate shades get lost in the mix. On the other hand I find that "Full" is better for this particular samsung TV. Its all about preference at the end of the day. I can't see there being much difference from one identical model of this tv to another. That's as mad as saying one car built on an assembly line will have more horse power than an identical car built on the same assembly line. That makes no sense. The only thing that might cause differences is tv firmware. This tv automatically updates itself anyway.

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The price of bread? Nothing.

The price of bread? Nothing. Who said anything about 2 feet?
As for HD photo quality : everything. The HD pictures are absolutely pin sharp at 5 sharpness (And probably would be at zero, im still testing it). I was watching HD golf yesterday through its inbuilt tuner and I set sharpness to 20 and the grass looked awful. There were definite 'convergence errors'

billybifocals wrote:

I dont understand how anyone can say "movie mode" looks natural or the most realistic... it just makes the image a yellow blurred mess, as if you're looking through a layer of clingfilm.

 

All I can say is your settings are very odd to me. Sounds like your AV receiver is changing the signal somehow (Or there are other possible causes)

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billybifocals wrote:

billybifocals wrote:

The reason why ive got RGB Full Range (HDMI) set to Full is because "Limited" delivers a more subdued, albeit more naturalistic, color range, while "Full" produces both brighter and richer tones on both ends of the spectrum. As a result of the "Full" spectrum, many intermediate shades get lost in the mix. On the other hand I find that "Full" is better for this particular samsung TV. Its all about preference at the end of the day. I can't see there being much difference from one identical model of this tv to another. That's as mad as saying one car built on an assembly line will have more horse power than an identical car built on the same assembly line. That makes no sense. The only thing that might cause differences is tv firmware. This tv automatically updates itself anyway.

What I am saying is that whilst the PS3 games will (In some cases, but mostly not) use the full RGB colour pallette, blurays and dvds are 8 bit and so all you're doing is converting the signal. As with any conversion going on, errors are than possible s it converts on the fly.

In other words, it could look worse than staying at LIMITED (Which its encoded in to start with : so no conversion going on)

Any ISF engineer would tell you that the same model number will have slightly different settings. Setting tvs has nothing to do with cars (Although I am 100% sure if you could measure the horse power very accurately, there certainly would be differences between the cars)

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"What I am saying is that

"What I am saying is that whilst the PS3 games will (In some cases, but mostly not) use the full RGB colour pallette, "

Are you a games expert as well as an all knowing tv calibration expert too? How do you know that most games dont support "Full" RGB colour? Have you personally checked with every developer out there or compiled some amazing list? And as for the horse power example, it was simply that, a ridiculous example that any dumbass could comprehend. I should have gone with another example such as 2 identical plastic cups created on an assembly line, but you'd only turn around and say something like "if you measured the water in the cups accurately enough you would find that one cup can hold more water than the other identical cup"..... the troll is strong with you. Lets just leave it at that. My useful settings are now drowning in irrelevant BS, cheers.

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what are you on about

I said 2 feet because a typical desktop pc is used when you're sat in front of a desk, you know, with a keyboard in front of your body so you can type... if you're sat further than 3 feet from a monitor your not going to be able to reach your keyboard to type with.

And you're telling me that movie mode doesn't look like a muddy brown mess on any tv? I think you need your eyes testing chief.

The following is an example:

http://prolost.com/blog/2011/3/28/your-new-tv-ruins-movies.html

Just look at the two screen shots of inception, with and without movie mode switched on, its an obvious frigging difference, I know which one id prefer to watch. Perhaps you could go troll on there instead.

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You should have gone with the

You should have gone with the cups because the engine analogy does not further your point, it actually supports the opposite.  Any system with many parts has a huge amount of tolerance stack up, TVs and engines will vary.  My engine is supposed to come out of the factory with 149hp, but judging by the forums they had anywhere between 142hp to 156hp.  That is a huge amount of variation.

As with TVs, the huge amount of tolerance stackup will cause variations in picture output.  They will be small variations, but they will be there.  You only need to checkout the many "my panasonic tv is a duffer" threads to see the variation from panel to panel.

If you like the second inception image thats cool, set your TV how you like.  The first image looks closer to how I would expect it to look, the second one has very poor unnatural skin tones to my eye. 

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i guess

The inception images were simply an example of how different an image with movie mode on or off actually looks. I was just pointing out how the movie mode image looks muddier in comparison. I would rather have something in between those two images. I cant stand retina burning high contrast modes, they're all turned off.

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Billy :

Billy :

I cant be bothered properly quoting as the software of this site is really bad to get around so I shall just go old school.
As far as I am aware, I actually created the thread and posted my own settings and further explained why I thought they 'might' be useful. If anyone is trolling, I would say its yourself as (Correct me if I am wrong here), your very first post was on my thread?

Instead of explaining yourself properly you have siply attacked everything I have said without any real background to it.
 

"all detail is lost if you put the sharpness at 0, so dont do it."

I am truly baffled by your sharpness setting. Perhaps we have different firmware? Anything over 10 on mine looks horrible at times. Whilst zero makes my PC desktop look absolutely pin sharp (From approx 3 meters away and I use a wireless keyboard and mouse). So on mine, zero is definitely WAY more preferable to 70 (Which looks staggeringly bad on mine).
Of course you can set yours however you like, but suggesting that my settings are wrong from the off isnt a particularly good way to go to my mind.

 

"I dont understand how anyone can say "movie mode" looks natural or the most realistic... it just makes the image a yellow blurred mess, as if you're looking through a layer of clingfilm." :

I never said to use movie mode on standard settings, I said to use movie mode and warm 2 then set white balance. And its not a generally good idea to just set something then decide its wrong immediately. People 'acclimitise' themselves to what theyre used to and dont like change. But most people will prefer a calibrated display over a period of time and appreciate how much better and more natural it looks to anything other than a calibrated display.

Your post of the two pictures is not something I can really comment on. I dont know if the first is calibrated (I suspect its not properly calibrated). And theres no mention of movie mode. And simply selecting movie mode doesnt suddenly mean the tv is calibrated (It doesnt)

"I cant stand retina burning high contrast modes, they're all turned off."
Something we can agree on. A calibrated tv certainly wont have them switched on.

As for the FULL RGB on PS3 games: The last I heard there was only one programme that actually used the full pallette, and it wasnt even a game. You can go looking if you like, but I am pretty sure very few games actually use the full pallette (Mostly due to memory restrictions)

For some reason you bring up analogies which have nothing to do with what the actual subject is about? (And not very well thought through to my mind)

"Backlight and contrast aren't at maximum because I found that you actually lose fine details in bright areas on the screen by having them cranked up to full." "I calibrated my tv by using the Disney WOW calibration bluray that I imported from America"
Brightness and backlight settings are there to calibrate black levels, nothing to do with 'bright areas on the screen'.
I dont know of the calibration disc you speak of, but if its worth its salt you would use it to set brightness and contrast properly (So its not crushing blacks or whites)

"by staring at a pure white screen, raising and lowering various colours until there was only white visible. For example, most uncalibrated screens have too much red and this results in an ever so slight pink tinge to the screen when looking at whats meant to be a pure white screen.

The 2 point and 10 point fine tuning of the colours was done by a Sencore OTC1000 Meter with AV Foundry VideoForge Source and Direct Display Control."
The above seems to be a contradiction? You have posted one set of white balance controls (Presumably someone elses using the $7000 dollar meter?), yet you say you set them by eye?

"I can't see there being much difference from one identical model of this tv to another." : And yet you have changed settings that someone used a $7K colour meter to set?!?

"My useful settings are now drowning in irrelevant BS, cheers."
Again, anyone can use any settings they like, just as you have done. But I think youll find you are trolling my thread, and not making a particularly good case for yourself.
 

 

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