I had to laugh reading this, all the technology in the world and we still need to use Sellotape. Absolutely priceless
glad your enjoying your new tv strapped after the issues you had with your last one, and glad the calibration has again received positive feedback. Will have to get that sorted once I've got the tv issue done and dusted.
Yeah, it was strange watching the makeshift 3D calibration solution, but there's really no other way until someone designs a meter with an appropriate fitting, or a detachable clip to hold the glasses in place.
Once you have a TV that's a keeper, I'd argue that calibration is the best way to next spend your money. The VT65 is a fantastic TV. Any issues are very minor indeed. I'm unreasonably fussy. If I'm happy, I'm guessing most people will struggle to complain.
Hope you get sorted soon. Remind me where you're at. (There have been so many GT50 horror stories on here that I've struggled to keep track.)
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112
Glad your happy with the cal - not surprised at all mate
I hate to say I told you so on all accounts - I bet the cal has ironed out a few of the issues you were seeing as I said. I can tell my cals drifted because of what errors I am seeing now.
I have harped on and on about getting a TV calibrated and the difference that it makes, I have particularly had this out with Big Boss so its good to have another person contribute. How can anyone own a top end plasma and not have it calibrated - £2k + on a TV and won't spend a £couple hundred on actually seeing it properly is crazy!!
I expect jules cal'd using the normal temperature preset - that pushes blue. That's what I used for 2D as its the closest to 6500k as a starting point.
all other reports of cals have been done using warm - that pushes red. I thought the 3d3 image was blue hence why I put the set on warm - if you increase red you auto decrease blue - man my eye is more trained than I thought happy days.
The difference between standard patterns and APL patterns - standard just has a single box - greyscale is 0%-100% in 10% increments and colour is just the different 6 colours + white x2
APL is that same box but with other boxes on the screen to try and represent real world content.
What patterns did he use?
i also knew you would be keeping the 3D3 - they allow for a much better experience and are more calibrateable
you can thank me on that one later. What settings did he use for the 3d cal - what luminance and what gamma / what gamma target did he cal to 2.2? 2.4?
what contrast did you tell him you wanted the 2d cal set to?
what gamma did he do your 2d to? If he did night and day which I think is silly what gamma is each?
Meridian G61R, HD621, Bryston 9BSST
Optimised Audio PC - J River / JPlay / Custom Full Linear Power Supply
Panasonic 65VT65, Marantz UD7007, HIFi Racks Podium Reference
Monitor Audio GX100, GXC150, GXFX, BK XLS400 (set with hard knee house curve)
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Hi Strapped, sounds like you've had a result here, glad its made such a positive difference. How long had you been running your set for before you had it calibrated? This is definitely something I want to do, and am inpatient to do it, but don't want to get inferior results from not running in properly first.
I'd clocked up about 600 hours, which is arguably excessive, but I'd heard reports of Panasonics drifting quite a bit in the early days. (I thought better safe than sorry.)
Thanks, I've also read that the colours on the panny can drift initially, hence why I've been hanging on, but am getting impatient as am trying not to watch any blurays until it's done - not sure I can wait 600 hours, you must have the patience of a saint!!
Lounge: Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B (calibrated), Pioneer SC-LX75, Denon DPB-2012, Sky-HD1TB, PS4, Xbox 360, Apple-TV, Atacama Equinox AV stand, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, RXC, RX-FX, RXW-12. Kitchen: Pioneer XC-HM81, Monitor Audio Bronze BX2. Bedroom: Samsung UE37D6510, Samsung BD-C5900, Sky-HD, Pioneer N-50, Rotel RC-03 (pre-amp), Rotel RB-9708X (power-amp), Mordaunt-Short MS914
Jules used Warm to calibrate using the 3D3s. 3D calibration might have been impossible selecting Normal mode. The overall blue push was very extreme, even selecting warm. I'm guessing it'd be easier to calibrate through the Panasonic glasses, which of course have a warmer tint.
Jules used standard windows and calibrated to 2.4 (2D night); 2.2 (2D day); and 2.2 (3D). However, he selected 2.6, 2.4, and 2.4 to do this, as gamma tracked closer to the target that way.
As for 3D3 vs. Panasonic, the jury's still out. I still believe there are advantages and drawbacks to using each. The way I saw it, the 3D3s won on convenience rather than performance; and I'd argue that calibration through the 3D3s is more difficult. When Jules took the first reading, the errors were massive; and I mean MASSIVE.
Thats spurring me on to get a i1 Display pro to do a 3D cal !!! Its inevitable - just need the funds for the meter
If the errors are as bad as you say then I am in for a real treat mate - as the 3D performance out of the box is still very good, maybe becuase of the screen size and becuase of the 7007. I get no cross talk at all - I would sat 1% of cross talk which is I think excellent and really makes for a good watch
The image needs some work but I have seen the potential. You must be loving your Panny now - the first time I saw a good calibration I was stunned!
Its also good to know I am doing things right - remeber I have had no formal training just used the old brain to work it out
While the difference with 2D calibration is notable, the difference with 3D calibration is even more pronounced.
Though warm pushes red, with 3D activated on my VT65 warm still had a heavy blue bias. We concluded that this was deliberate as it would give an impression of punchier whites and therefore a brighter image. Throw the 3D3's heavy blue tint into the mix and the errors are almost at the limit of what can be calibrated out. To give some context, Jules was here for eight-and-a-half hours and more than half of that time was spent on the 3D calibration.
I'd encourage anyone to calibrate 3D, but it's tough going. Using an i1 Display Pro, low end readings fluctuate a lot. (One click can lead to substantial reading shifts below 30 percent.) Jules really had to wrestle with the settings to get things under control; even then the greyscale wasn't perfectly flat.
Above 30 percent greyscale converges perfectly; below 30 percent red is pushed by about five percent. Any effort to compensate for low end errors caused things to fall apart. There was a domino effect with huge errors moving along the chart. Having watched the process, I was in no doubt that this was as good as it was going to get. Jules thought last year's Panasonics were easier to calibrate in 3D, but the 3D3's tint increased the difficulty.
Your results are excellent, though I wonder if the DIY route proves more expensive overall. I'd want to get the meter profiled against a spectro fairly regularly, which means more expense over the cost of a meter and software. Being able to check your results periodically is definitely an advantage, though. I'll spend the next year wondering whether my TV has drifted. There's always something to feel anxious about!
I think you can be overly anal about the graphs so dont stress to much - if you get minor drift its not the end of the world - you wont never know.
I wouldnt stress about it - even at £200 every 18months 2 years its not expensive if you want to be sure.
The other things when that when you own the metre and software you have time on your hands to keep going back until you crack it.
Also rather than recalibrating the meter - its more a case of throw away and buy new that is the cheaper option and you always get the newest model so thats another worry gone. The new i1 Display pro - uses optics rather than the other sensor so that should stay accurate for longer proiving its kept in the dark as moisture free as possible
I currently have 26 silica gels in the box and around my C3 metre - there is no moisture getting in there lol
What luminance did he use for 3D I am assuming High - I wondered if better results were possible using Medium - and whether the image would have enough pop.
I think its the high setting that kills the black performance
Yeah, we settled on High for 3D.
Low and Medium were only producing 4 ftl through the glasses. I'm sure High panel luminance accounts for some of the instability.
I agree that owning a meter means you can go back and improve on your previous results. That said, 2D day and night charts are ruler flat, with all delta errors well below one.
Getting gamma right definitely helps 3D black level performance. Obviously there's a small trade-off compared with 2D, but that's 3D for you. It's never going to look quite as good.
Right, better sign-off now. I've got a load of paperwork to do and a busy evening ahead.
Thats a good cal - I struggled to get my last attempt ruler flat thorugh 70 and 80 - there was a slight kink that would never be visual but the anal enthusiast in you wants to get that ruler flat.
I didnt know if the set could produce a ruler flat gamma at 2.4 - its easy to set it flat but when you go back and test it moves a bit - maybe a slightly more accurate meter wouldnt do that - but it only does it in the 70-80 for me if it was the metre it would be all along.
Did he give you the results on computer to publish so I can have a look? You can pm me on AVF if thats easier
2nd gt50, this one has vertical banding in the middle of the screen. Already informed retailer not happy but advised would see if goes in run in period. Accept this is unlikely but I was hoping by the time that happens they might stock the gt60.
Lounge: Panasonic (faulty but 'within specification') 50GT50, Mico DVD-A980 (multi region), Yamaha RX-V596RDS, Mission M74, M7C and M7DS speakers, Sony CDPXE570, Nintendo WIi, Sony PS3, Humax FOXSAT-HDR,
Conservatory: Panasonic 42G20 and DMP-BD45EBK
I'll post the charts on this thread some time soon.
In the meantime, here are the numbers for 2.4 gamma, post-calibration.
2.4 gamma wasn't quite ruler flat post-calibration (I was really talking about greyscale). 10 percent is 0.5 percent out, but otherwise it's pretty much spot on.
The cal day is most accurate; gamma is flat all the way, as is greyscale. In any case, both look fantastic (I prefer the 2.4 night settings to watch).
I think both are unlikely, unfortunately.
I think a refund or VT65 are your only options if you're sticking with John Lewis.
You have a similar kink at 70 - 80 as me. Its higher contrast, then kinks to lower. Mine was more severe than that but I gave up as it was mega late and it wasnt a cal for keeping
I bet the ZT doesnt do that and it is caused by the reflection of that much light output.
You'll have to ask Mr Malarky after he gets his ZT calibrated.
I was never in the market for a ZT; though I'm wondering if I should have pushed the budget and bought the 55" VT. Probably not; 50" seems right in my living room. I'm happy that I've got the best 50" TV available, calibrated to ensure it's performing optimally.
I don't think that minor gamma kink has any influence on viewing. As you know, Panny greyscale readings out of the box look like a hill. I was surprised that, with the TV set to output 2.4, the low end was tracking close to 2.1. The difference is huge and the out of the box picture looks very washed out by comparison.
Just been watching a YouTube video on the fan noise:
It don't sound too bad, does make an interesting noise though!
Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.
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