Definitely getting me interested too.
What does it mean by black level is 400 per cent better! How can that be, 400 per cent?
See, I knew you'd come around in the end!
With creative mathematics, advertisers can pretty much say anything they like. Just look at manufacturers' LED TV contrast claims. Samsung's F8500 black level claim was relative to the E8000's performance, and the F8500 certainly goes much blacker than that.
Bear in mind that the 0.001 and 0.004 ANSI figures in the review are foot lambert readings (rather than the candela per square metre readings used in UK reviews). Converted, and using the UK review figures for comparison, those figures equal in candela per square metre:
F8500: 0.0034 (full black screen) and 0.013 (ANSI checkerboard)
VT50: 0.009 (full black screen) and 0.012 (ANSI checkerboard)
If we use the ANSI reading, which of course we should as this reflects black level with content on screen, there's essentially no difference between these TVs. All of that assumes no variance between tests in different environments (albeit using the same meter).
I honestly don't think the black level conversation is worth having. The TVs seemingly match each other in this regard and it would be impossible to tell them apart. That said, the F8500 reading is out of the box and may be lower once the TV has bedded in.
In other regards, motion and shadow detail especially, the F8500 looks a better TV than the VT50. 3D performance is better, too, as the F8500 can produce much brighter 3D images. While many people don't care, it's good to know that the TV will get the best out of 3D Blu-rays.
It seems we're in a position now where Panasonic and Samsung plasmas are so close in terms of performance that any decision comes down to small preferences, or problems reported. If the F8500 has perfect screen uniformity and better motion, I think that's where my money will go.
I also think the F8500 looks sexier than the VT50/60. And there's no annoying, distracting light on the front when the power is turned on. A small detail, yes, but in a dark room that green light can be annoying.
Excuse the mini-essay! These are really just my thoughts spilling onto the page...
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112
Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!
Sure, but it's a very productive use of my time if you're putting all that work in
Then this is my last post here on this year's plasma TVs. If you can't even pretend to pitch in...
I would pitch in if I had 2k laying around
Paul's BR/805 system thread
(where the photos live) Paul's Flickr page
Strapped I salute you sir that level of info and research is peaking my interest even further with the F8500 but much the same as BenLaw i'm in no hurry to replace my tv, i've been happy with the HX853 since I bought it but if the F8500 performs as well as it seems then i'm more than interested in upgrading come the end of the year when the price has fallen.
Yes the research may have got to boredom/obsession levels but if you get a tv you are genuinely happy with then it will all have been worth it eh, i'm sure plenty of people are keeping an eye out for the tv but it's a simple fact that until the reviews start to appear any excitement will be muted simply because of the fact that too many tvs have claimed to be Kuro killers in recent times only to be outed as also rans.
You have to bear in mind too that all the facts and figures (however impressive) are just that until a good concensous can be garnered from reviews, we really need to see how all the major reviewers rate the tv first to get a grip on just how good the tv is in the flesh and perhaps then we can celebrate a tv that can finally be called a Kuro killer. I'm certainly excited to see those reviews just to see if the good news continues from the few bits you have managed to dig up thus far...i've got my fingers crossed that later in the year Samsung tempt me to buy a new tv.
I also hope that you finally get a tv you are happy with and just hope that you get the chance to see the F8500 for yourself very soon, i've registered my interest too by the way so you can count me as interested!
Samsung UE55F8000 (THX Pro calibrated), Yamaha RX-A2020, Dali Zensor 5 7.1 (front presence config), Panasonic DMP-BDT500MR, WD TV Live, Marantz CD6003, Marantz PM6004, Beresford TC-7220 MKII, PS3, Xbox 360, QED Silver Anniversary XT speaker cable, Wireworld Chroma 7 HDMIs, Chord Crimson Sub and RCA, Chord Superscreen Mains Cable
Sorry strapped, I promise I'll pretend to pitch in from now on!
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
The F8500 readings were taken by Kevin Miller who, along with Robert Zohn, arranges the annual HDTV Shootout. Kevin Miller is up there with D-Nice of Cnet fame when it comes to expertise as a calibrator. In other words, I have as much faith in the measurements as in HDTV Test and AV Forums reviews.
It remains to be seen how much Panasonic has improved on last year's TVs. However, as you know, I've lost all confidence that their TVs will be relatively problem free out of the box and remain that way long term.
Whether the F8500 is regarded as a genuine Kuro killer will remain a matter of opinion. Pioneer fanboys that believe black level is the only marker of image quality may quibble over imperceptible differences. In other regards, including functionality, the last-gen Kuros are outmatched. In any case, buying a four year old TV seems a false economy now.
Keep your interest levels up, Oldboy. We're finding out more with each day that passes!
Well, that's probably the most I can hope for!
You could join in, just for the fun of it!
Admittedly, as per my post above, researching my next TV purchase is giving me a headache rather than any sense of fun.
Yes, but in a utilitarian sense it is well worth it
Do Samsung plasmas buzz?
Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad Air & iPhone 5S
Mine does, but only if you go to Hoth...
There is some loud buzzing evident in the vids linked to at the beginning of this thread but it's unknown if that is evident of a genuine issue with buzzing from this particular tv, only time and reviews from both experts and customers will tell us the answer to that question. I think it's far more unlikely than the chances of getting buzzing from a Panasonic plasma though which seem to really suffer here unless you are very lucky and get a quiet one.
What about sound quality? I bought a Samsung 46D8000 about a year and a half ago, and that was seriously poor, kept distorting when ever you turned it up remotely high!
Guess all we need then is:
I think it's safe to say all TVs sound rubbish since thin TVs became a priority. My Samsung is ok, it sounds about the same as my big fat LCD panasonic which had speaker columns on the side.
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