Yes, I guess people are reluctant to believe the hype until they seem some independant opinion. Plus we have all seen and heard it all before, and been left disappointed.
Early feedback from the States seems positive.
cloverleaf146 wrote:Early feedback from the States seems positive.
No idea what's going on. The chunk of text above was split into paragraphs, but for whatever reason, it's impossible to separate the text. :?
I think it's Panasonic's efforts to sabotage F8500 hype...
strapped for cash wrote:No idea what's going on. The chunk of text above was split into paragraphs, but for whatever reason, it's impossible to separate the text. :?I think it's Panasonic's efforts to sabotage F8500 hype...
Screenshots of a calibrated F8500 next to a calibrated VT50:
According to the calibrator, Kevin Miller, and Robert Zohn who arranges the annual "HDTV Shootout," the F8500 matches a ninth-gen Kuro's black level, but goes brighter with both day and night calibrations, hanging onto its black level when using the day calibration settings (the equivalent of Panasonic's "THX Bright Room," which uses a fixed higher gamma setting and therefore has much lighter black levels).
Greyscale tracking and gamma were flat as a pancake, and colour accuracy spot on.
The ZT65 may prove a better TV overall, but since I can't afford it or fit it in my living room, the Samsung is starting to look like the best option. I'll see what happens with the ST60 and how that compares with the F8500.
Incidentally, check out the yellow splodge on the VT50 toward the centre-right of the panel. No uniformity problems reported with the F8500... Am I losing the capacity for rational thought and talking myself into buying one?
EDIT: looking at the pics again, the yellow splodge may be lighting reflected by the screen, or a camera flash, since the F8500 has a slightly yellow patch toward the top right. Choosing a television is such a confusing, stressful process. All that uncertainty...
strapped for cash wrote:cloverleaf146 wrote:Early feedback from the States seems positive.I'm not cherry picking quotes. Few have seen the F8500 in action, but those that have seem highly impressed.
The latest poster on AVS says: "Well color me utterly blown away. I just saw one. The television is simply unreal. (I think beyond either the pioneer elites or sharp elites.) Amazing, with all the talk of 4k this year and oled, this masterpiece of a television completely slipped under the radar."
I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. Perhaps it'll be like internet dating -- the real thing doesn't live up to the photo and description. We'll see.
I can't afford or accommodate a ZT65, so it's no odds to me how good Panasonic's "Kuro killer" is. The F8500, however, comes within budget, at the right size. The only alternative I'm considering is a 55" ST60, but only if screen uniformity problems are genuinely fixed.
I've been following the thread you linked to, thanks for that I don't put much stock in screen shots or indeed user experience, certainly at this stage after so little time and with so few users. However, the measurements are much more objective (although there still seems some scope for debate) and they sound very positive. Depending on the 9th gen measurement used either surpassing or matching. So like you, I have gathering enthusiasm about this set. As previously discussed, my situation is less critical than yours, but if I were to buy a TV in the next 12 months I would have the same choice as you. Unlike you, I would in any event want to wait til price drops later in the cycle, so that will allow sufficient time to see if there are problems like DSE in either set. We should know earlier than that how far behind in PQ the ST is, although I assume whatever happens it will be less adjustable, which will be a negative. If I can find the funds and there are no issues with the Samsung, I may be tempted to forego the extra 4 inches
I am the danger.
BenLaw wrote:We should know earlier than that how far behind in PQ the ST is, although I assume whatever happens it will be less adjustable, which will be a negative. If I can find the funds and there are no issues with the Samsung, I may be tempted to forego the extra 4 inches
We should know earlier than that how far behind in PQ the ST is, although I assume whatever happens it will be less adjustable, which will be a negative. If I can find the funds and there are no issues with the Samsung, I may be tempted to forego the extra 4 inches
Unlike the ST50, The ST60 has a full colour management system and (according to TPS) no vertical bands. Apparently the ST60 is capable of reference colour accuracy as a result.
If I went the ST60 route, I'd also have the option of a 55" TV for less than £1,500. I haven't found any ST60 black level readings, but if they match the ST50, they're already genuinely excellent.
Apart from the obvious, one more thing that annoys me about the GT50 is that only the Professional presets allow full colour managment. Since these presets have a brightness cap and less impressive MLL, it's impossible to get the very best out of the TV, however you set it up. This wasn't true of the ST50, isn't true of the ST60, and isn't true of the F8500.
If the GT and VT this year have a brightness cap in Professional modes, and no full CMS using other picture presets, I'll definitely pass on each.
Ah right, thanks for the info. So it looks like a genuine shootout based on performance and reliability / consistency.
I'm still leaning toward the F8500, as I'm fed up with double imaging when viewing 50Hz content. Let's face it, 50Hz material comprises the majority of our viewing in the UK, and Panasonic still hasn't fixed this bug. I wonder if the ZT will be affected?
Whichever TV I buy needs to serve me well for the next four years. On that basis, I'm willing to push the budget for the right TV.
Preliminary F8500 review here:
The F8500's ANSI black level is marginally higher higher than the VT50 in THX Cinema mode, but beats the VT50 in its Professional modes. In other words, the F8500 will put out a better picture than the VT50, since the picture mode with the highest contrast includes a full CMS and can be calibrated to reference standard.
The F8500 also handles motion better than the VT50 and, in the reviewer's opinion, is the better TV overall, just.
I'm now wondering if the difference in picture quality between the 55" ST60 and 51" F8500 will be so marginal that I'd be best off with the cheaper and larger TV. Based on current information, it's a very close call. I need to see both in action.
:grin: This is great! I'm not going to bother looking into these at all myself as you're doing a fantastic job of it all and collating it all for me By the time I consider buying one I'm sure I will have all the reviews and measurements here, all the relevant user reports and your own considerably informed opinion. Keep up the good work, sir
Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!
Definitely getting me interested too.
What does it mean by black level is 400 per cent better! How can that be, 400 per cent?
Home cinema system: LG 55EA980W OLED TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.
Gadgets: iPad 2 and iPhone 4s. Dab radio: Roberts Dreamtime. Headphones: Sennheiser Momentum.
gel wrote:Definitely getting me interested too. What does it mean by black level is 400 per cent better! How can that be, 400 per cent?
Okay, I have just realised some people might not know what info I am referring to, here it is:
strapped for cash wrote:Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!
Sure, but it's a very productive use of my time if you're putting all that work in :grin: