Ps, that was a joke obviously (I don't either of those things!)
Lounge: Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B (calibrated), Pioneer SC-LX75, Denon DPB-2012, Sky-HD1TB, PS4, Xbox 360, Apple-TV, Atacama Equinox AV stand, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, RXC, RX-FX, RXW-12. Kitchen: Pioneer XC-HM81, Monitor Audio Bronze BX2. Bedroom: Samsung UE37D6510, Samsung BD-C5900, Sky-HD, Pioneer N-50, Rotel RC-03 (pre-amp), Rotel RB-9708X (power-amp), Mordaunt-Short MS914
It's a shame a 55 inch won't quite fit and is a bit over budget but then we all have restrictions of space, cash and those other halves place on us so something has to give eh.
With a fair amont of space and no other half , my only (rather severe) restriction is cash!!
Click here to read about my system
Welcome back SoSJ, not sure whether to ask if you had a nice holiday as I read on another thread it was a family affair, but nice to have you back
Oldboy I am glad you have settled on the Panasonic,I wondered how long this thread was going to run....,phew.. the pana plasmas are the only TVs that has consistent reviews..all the Leds reviewed have inconsistent reviews(unbelievable) and at this rate I doubt you(oldboy)will buy an Led TV.
A few points.....
Why Philips PFL8008?
In many ways, you should be looking at the Philips 55PFL 9007 range for similar money to the Vt65.The 8008 Philips model really should not have been in the super test, but put in there to make it easy to call a winner. It is like not having U' Bolts in a 100m race and declared the best 100m sprinter from the result. Crass.
The review confusion.....
The Philips 9707 range,not mentioned,above the 8008 model, with 240 localised dimming zones(real mc coy) I also believed is the best Led TV out there... but What HD TV test review seem to disagree with Av forum and what hi fi. The former given a bare 'recommeded' award to both 9007 and 8008 models...with good reasons. I am grinning. :grin: I supppose this would confuse you even more and the rest of us?
The truth is,who really knows what the best Led set is?? But we know the best plasma ever made past and present.
On the subject of colour production they(Plasma.LEDs) all have a way to go.If you see the 10bit digital master of the bluray film you own that is sampled down....you really question how well even the ZX60/65 can show colours compare to the 'reference bluray master' .Colour production is still lagging to contrast and blackness levels. Oled will sadly make everyone see how below par their current Tvs are.
Sharp and Sony are trying to address this problem now but it is not perfect but at least we are given more for the cash.How would you like a W905a
with no Triuminous... just be another HX853....not worth the upgrade cost is it for another 2.3k so you can have 9 inches more of screen.
The test we want to see:-
Now a 4k resampled sony bluray for 1080p use would be the Ultimate viewing test which the Sony W905a and the new X 4k range would win on colours....so far no results can be called. So a verdict cannot be made on how the X range's triluminous would perform,and I tell you it will be Perfecton...leaving the rest for d***
For now I do not pay too much attention in current reviews as they have incomplete data for analysis...
The puzzling madness not affecting Plasmas:
The Pro' Led reviews are not consistent then it is not useful at all...impossible to say anything with any absolute critical certainty? It becomes a 'punch and judy' review bashing contest.
As for personal auditions of Led TVs, I doubt they are valid to be published..hahaha....we could not be sure of what we are sure of and least expect others to believe it unless it was build on social networking gibberish.
Led Pro TV reviews..... not worth paying a fee.Just trusty the free review stuff.Naah.
Quite frankly, I would not buy another expensive Televison if I have a recent 46 inch one. A No no. The TV range is refreshed every year. If you have a 46 inch man, unless it is 5 years old and rubbish, you are rather indulging yourself in paying much more for not much? Three years is a good time to upgrade like a moto as it takes companies years to get a radical shift in what they have to offer.
Panasonic more known for their broadcast equipment are just hammering on the same nail in their Teles. The rest of the Light Emitting Diode televisions are sorting out problems on an imperfect technology. It is an end game on these screens anyway. Size and resolution go hand in hand. Current Tvs are low resolution if you ask me. How sensible to make teles bigger and bigger. How does a 85 inch look at 1080p.Get my drift? Sitting further away from the set doesnt't make it solved.PS3/Xbox 360 game players sit close to TVs. Ask my son he sits 4 ft from a 50 inch set but complains the games are blurry. They are on 720p aren't they. If you play console games on your big TV,1080p is already too much than your games can fill. Shocking isn't it. As for colours in games they are all synthetic to even talk about colour reproduction quality as the last poster speaks of?
Gaming monitors with high refresh rate on a PC are better. £400 will get you a perfect gaming screen, you sit close to it on mega resolutions providing your graphics card muster it. You do not need 4K TV. Have any one seen a MAC cinema display....killer resolution and sharpness at close range. And I do not want to sit far from it with that quality. But I got time for a 4K TV I suppose.
I read this thread coming from mainly motor and audio side of things where there are greater movement in the respective technology.
TV development has been ridiculously slow process and when when it really happens it gets expensive.
As kevin Bacon would say,maybe not,nothing quite beats the Cinema experience - Best pictures and sounds that would cost you just tenner a time.
I'll say, would you rather see the next superman film on your 60 inch Plasma or in a Cinema with Sony Cinema 4k and 7.1 real audio on real comfy seats.
Oldie, save your money.....for the next Real Thing.....you need to as Organic Light Emitting Diodes will be expensive espensive. You will need six thousand for a 55 inch set.
To be clear I have not settled on a 55VT65 plasma in any way.
All that has happened is that it has been added to my list of auditions after first being discounted and my concerns over plasma remain, my past experiences have had a profound affect in the amount of confidence I have in Panasonic plasmas and this can't be over looked. I went through 4 GT30 sets in 8 months and then faced a battle with my retailer to get a refund and then bought the HX853 which has been excellent in comparison with no issues since it was delivered.
With issues such as loud buzzing, extreme fan noise, dark lines on the screen and then a strange unexplained clouding effect on the screen let alone huge IR issues I know how unreliable Panasonic plasmas have been in the past and there in lies my hesitancy to jump back in, when it was working correctly the benefits of a plasma tv could be easily seen but every one I had was beset by problems. As a gamer I was very reticent to even use it for gaming due to the IR issues that took several days to clear despite taking all the right precautions and that just shouldn't be the case as a primary use for any tv I buy will be for gaming.
I understand all your points about reviews but I think what must be said is that no matter how impartial they try to be every review is simply a personal opinion and that is where the differing opinions come from. Why I take more notice of WHF reviews is because they review products with the price point firmly in mind where as all other reviews are simply technical and are looking for faults without taking the price into consideration plus WHF do supertests so they can easily compare tvs at the same price point which is why the Philips interests me so much.
Too many reviews get caught up in technical issues such as greyscale and colour reproduction when they are comparing a £2500 to some of the best tvs ever made in those areas. As we all know no tv is perfect so all reviews should take into account the price as well as the performance, it's great to learn about some of the issues that effect tvs but too many get bogged down in technicalities and forget to view them as a tv if you get my meaning.
I simply take reviews as a starting point for tvs to audition and then go from there but this year it's been far more difficult due to the hugely different reviews, the vary so wildly it's laughable and it makes a mockery of the whole review process. It's like you just have to choose who's opinion you value the most and go with that and ignore all the rest where as in past years there has at least been a clear consensus of opinion but scores vary so wildly this year that there seems to be no consensus at all which just confuses matters hugely.
As you say the only tv to get a clear consensus of opinion is the 55VT65 but being a plasma tv i'm very afraid I will get all the same issues I faced last time which I simply don't want to go through, I know by buying from John Lewis I can make the process as painless as possible but I must admit that I still favour an LED over a Plasma tv although I will now give equal consideration to both.
Samsung UE55F8000 (THX Pro calibrated), Yamaha RX-A2020, Dali Zensor 5 7.1 (front presence config), Panasonic DMP-BDT500MR, WD TV Live, Marantz CD6003, Marantz PM6004, Beresford TC-7220 MKII, PS3, Xbox 360, QED Silver Anniversary XT speaker cable, Wireworld Chroma 7 HDMIs, Chord Crimson Sub and RCA, Chord Superscreen Mains Cable
That sounds dangerously like a common sense approach to these ears. As you say, it's one thing to know JL will replace a faulty set, but if you've been through plasma hell before then that's scant consolation relative to the potential stress involved.
Thanks for your input.
Put simply my only reason for wanting a new tv is simply screen size as at my seating position, which is as close as I can get it with the constraints of furniture and furnishings etc, the tv is simply not big enough. It's most noticeable with 2.35:1 content when the black bars kick in and especially with 3D in this format, when compared to a full screen 1.85:1 content you lose alot of detail and insight into movies and content which is why a 55 inch tv would suit me far better.
If you look at the suggested screen sizes for how far away you sit then really I should be looking at a 60 inch or above tv but that is just not possible due to cost and sheer size of the tv as you start to notice issues much more readily such as motion blur, picture noise etc at that size. 55 inches is as large as I wan to go and should give me the image I crave to go with my surround set up.
When it comes to the 55 inch tv I don't care about the latest gimmick or features put in there to sell more tvs so things like triluminous and the latest skin added to smart tv content etc is not a factor in my decision, all I want is a tv that performs at least as well as my current one but preferably a step up and for it to suit my needs as primarily a source for hi def movies and console gaming.
When it comes to gaming...with the next gen out by the end of the year 720p games will be a thing of the past with 1080p being the new standard so i'm also preparing for my PS4 at the end of the year with this tv. I completely understand your point about gaming monitors but it's simply not possible or practical for me to buy a seperate monitor for console gaming, i'm not a PC gamer either so a decent tv in the living that allows everyone to get involved is what i'm after with a minimal lag input.
I don't sit too close to my current tv either, infact I sit too far away when you look at the screen size guide for seating positions so that's of no concern to me. This next tv needs to last me the next 5-6 years until OLED is finally available at a realistic consumer price with any issues ironed out which is why this choice is so important to me as I want to get a tv that is going to suit my needs for that long and be reliable during that time.
My mistake was in thinking a 46 inch tv was big enough when I bought the HX853, I looked at the 55 inch version then and thought it would be too big but if I had bought that tv then I really don't think I would be considering a new tv now...lesson learnt but I want to do everything I can to get this next purchase right so that it lasts me until OLED finally arrives at consumer friendly prices.
Of course I don't particually need a new tv but I would like to finish off my setup which I've spent alot of time and money assembling and when the tv arrives I can't see any other purchases until OLED arrives.
I don't agree with the cinema experience i'm afraid. I went to see Man Of Steel at the weekend in iMax 3D and although the movie was great it's often a noisy place to watch a movie with frequent distractions of people talking, sweet bags rustling and phones going off. Not to mention that the sound was really harsh in the treble for some reason which seemed to be a choice for the film as when I watched the latest Star trek movie at the same cinema and screen the sound was spot on. Even more of an issue was the frequent issues of pixelation in the movie too, it really seemed like Man Of Steel was pushing the limits of the processing.
There are many a time when I just think I would rather wait and watch the movie when it's available to buy as it's often cheaper and quieter than the cinema experience, of course it can't be denied that the sheer size of the screen is a big draw and for a select few movies I do go to the cinema for full effect but I'm very happy with my movie experience at home and a 55 inch tv will only make it better.
Thank you, I was beginning to wonder if I was just being both paranoid and picky but I was sure it was just common sense so it 's reassuring to hear that was indeed the case.
My past experiences have had a huge effect on my decision this year and without it I would have settled on a 55VT65 quite quickly but I simply can't ignore all those previous issues and my needs from a new tv, if I can't use it for gaming (or i'm afraid to use it) then it's not for me. Some careful auditioning is to come so hopefully I settle on the ideal tv soon.
Yes the Ps4. That's to want.
I certainly recalled that when the Ps3 came out it was going to be with 1080p games been published. There was a few and then all end up as 720p? Or 720p and upscaled.
I still have not heard the all ps4 or xbox 1 games will be all 1080p or even beyond as it is powered by mid/high end range PC graphics? I certainly do not recall any promises by developers been made at E3 to that effect? There are new games of course and they ought to be 1080p in origination at least or they might get upscaled higher. It's still an uncertaintly.
The Ps4 will upscale(just in case and put Xbox 1 in the dog house for keeps)but not for games(for now betcha) which is 'offical'. Sony wants to use PS4 platform for an excuse for a public x9 4k TV purchase. I have no probs' with that.
If we are still with 1080p games by the dawn of the Ps4 and BR discs then it is what the Ps3 could do anyway, and if beyond 1080p then we don't need a 1080p TV of any size. Eitherway, I hope the latter prevails.
'The world with Blu ray is not really for beyond 1080p' so we make bigger TVs instead to make up. We know we need 4k TV just for the Ps4 hook up...that well be a heavenly pact and confer bragging rights more than if you had a Zx60 TV with 1080p. Watch out plasma loyalist.
'Games and Gamers will change the TV industry and not Blu ray' If the Ps4 will eventually upscale 1080p games to 4k well I wonder.
Would you be able to demo a TV for gaming? I guess there is no way to is there? I would not play games on my GT50 from what I have seen. But personally I am just in it for the best TV for my home cinema. I think the Panasonic are way ahead of the competition in that regard, I personally would drop the gaming and focus on home cinema, then there is only one winner. But if you are going to game, it is a lot harder to recommend. I suppose it will come down to your priorities.
I would never buy a TV from Richer Sounds again! I remember the stress too!
Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.
Once a gamer, always a gamer, I doubt Oldboy's about to bin his console anytime soon.
Do you play games on your Panasonic?
Nope, and looks like he has already got his next purchase ready too.
I have been, though only started last Saturday as wanted to run it in a bit first. Will admit to being slightly nervous about it due to things I've read on this forum about people's issues with past panasonics, but so far so good (albeit only a few days in).
My old Kuro was absolutely bomb-proof on the gaming front, never once had an issue with IR in over four years, so if I get any problems now I'll be gutted.
© 2014 Haymarket Publishing