I personally think the quality of TV components have been compromised since the economic downturn, and emergence of Korean heavyweights (Samsung and LG). Given the amount of problems on the previous 3 generations of Panasonic, we can only hope that the 2013 range is free of them.
Did the Kuro ever suffer from problems from new of the magnitude as the Panasonic models? I can't remember any long threads of problems associated with the Kuro.
Even the mighty Kuro wasn't problem free. If you google "Kuro dirty screen effect" you can find posts from disgruntled owners. I've also read a paper on 9th gen Kuro "red tint" problems. (Google "Plasma Diagnostics" and the PDF is online.)
That said, Pioneer treats its customers with greater respect than Panasonic. I haven't read of Pioneer describing a problem as "within specification." Panasonic's repeated use of this phrase is an insult to customers.
In the last three years, rising and floating blacks, motion problems, blobs, and the dirty screen effect have all been "within spec." Panasonic gets away with this because televisions from other manufacturers are even worse.
As much as it's convenient to blame Korean manufacturers, consumers constantly demanding more for less have contributed to the problem too. And thinking in macro-economic terms, we can also blame the architects of the economic crisis for placing the majority of consumers in a position where they need even greater value for money (though as the Pioneer experience taught us, the high end television market isn't sustainable).
I've never experienced Panasonic's customer service. When my Kuro developed a fault last year, Pioneer first asked me my 5-year warranty registration number but I didn't have the warranty card with me. He didn't insist on it, & arranged for repairs immediately, The warranty runs out next year, so will be looking to change my TV. Looking at the various problems Panasonic is suffering, I am hesitant to buy one at this point. I've decided to buy a projector instead, & will keep my Kuro for general TV viewing until it dies on me.
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
That is what you have always said anyway, but are you sure you are going to be able to deal with the fact of not owning the best TV in the world any longer?
Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad Air & iPhone 4S.
Oh well, I'll own the best projector in the world instead!
Cool, nice one! Look forward to seeing it.
You're not made of money...
Going back to the subject of Panasonic customer service, I'd be willing to bung Panasonic £500 to make my GT50's screen uniform. Without the dirty screen effect, I'd happily live with the television for several years (I've decided a 50" TV is plenty big enough for me).
However, I'm certain one of two things would happen if I contact Panasonic, as I've read too many accounts elsewhere.
1. Panasonic would advise that the problem is "within specification" by email and do absolutely nothing to help.
2. Panasonic would send an engineer round to look at the TV. The engineer would describe the problem as "within specification" or advise that there is no problem. Either way, my TV wouldn't be any better and I'd be charged for wasting the engineer's time.
In other words, Panasonic's customers have two options:
1. Suck it up.
2. Pay Panasonic more to tell you you're imagining the problem (in other words, pay Panasonic to tell you to suck it up).
It's a sorry state of affairs. I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112
Do you pay them afterwards or before? If afterwards, I'd ask for written proof of the specifications in order to demonstrate that the TV is within spec before paying the bill. It seems like a meaningless phrase to me. Doesn't it just mean 'we're incapable of making them without faults'?
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
Have you given up Strapped?
I thought you were prepared to live with it to see if it improved?
If you've given up, ring JL, tell them how you feel, and see what they offer. If you can get a refund, do it, because it sounds like you're never going to be happy with your GT, and any replacement will be the same.
If you do get a refund, bank half the money, and look around for either a LX508D or LX5090 with some warranty left, ou will not be disappointed with either I can assure you.
Then sit and wait for a suitable replacement in another year or so. You never know, this new set of Panasonics might just have perfect screen uniformity. There's always the Samsung option , their plasmas have greatly improved, and if they could just go that little bit further, and iron out some of their niggles, you'd have a great tv on your hands.
LOUNGE: Panasonic TX-P50GT50 (is poorly) / Panasonic DMP-BDT120 / Yamaha RX-A2020 / Q Acoustics 2020i (front) / Q Acoustics 2020 (rear) / Q Acoustics 2000Ci / Q Acoustics1000Si / Roksan Radius 5.2 (is poorly, so Pro-ject Debut III) / Sky HD / WD My Book Live / Tacima CS-929
BEDROOM: Samsung LE32C450 / Sony BDP-S360 / Echostar HDS-600RS / Netgear WNCE2001
I agree with Ben, and I'm sure any court of law would agree that faults on thousand pound tvs are not acceptable, and so can not be within spec.
Based on accounts I've read, you'd pay afterwards, as the engineer would need to determine that "there isn't a problem" first.
I think the "within specification" phrase simply means our legal department has found a disclaimer we're happy to roll out each year to avoid hugely expensive product recalls/repairs.
Maybe Panasonic plasma owners could sign a petition. With 1,000 signatures we could get the issue debated in Parliament; though I suspect the nasty party would sneer at consumers and take the corporate view.
I recall Ann Robinson taking a Panasonic exec to task on the subject of rising blacks on the G10 and V10. Even then, owners ultimately had to live with the problem.
What's really frustrating is that I feel like an idiot repeatedly complaining about this. There are of course far more pressing problems than poor screen uniformity on Panasonic plasma televisions; though I also think we should be able to buy a TV that works properly for four figure sums.
Thanks for the suggestions BBB.
That sums up what I'm thinking. To be honest, I become more frustrated each time I spot lighter and darker bands on the right hand side of the screen.
I need to ask JL how long they're willing to let me live with the TV to see if things improve. It would help if we knew what causes the problem. If it's the AR filter, I can't see things improving; if it's down to the way the panel is driven, this may become a non-issue further down the line.
I think simply accepting the TV as it is would be giving up.
By "best projector", I mean best projector for the money! I'm not looking to spend more than £3000 for one.
Well that's interesting. Trying to force them to do a repair, the ball would be in your court. But if they were trying to force you to pay the ball would be in their court. Ie they would have to establish you'd called them out unnecessarily, ie that the TV was within spec. I'd love to know how they'd go about proving the obvious fault is within spec. Especially as you could publicise any material they sought to rely on. I'd call them out for a repair and then spoil for a fight if they try and make you pay.
I'd call them out for a repair and then spoil for a fight if they try and make you pay.
Thanks for the advice, Ben.
I think I should call John Lewis first. My contract is with the retailer and I have greater faith in John Lewis's customer service. Spoiling for a fight with Panasonic sounds time consuming and stressful. I'm willing to be stubborn if I end up dealing with Panasonic directly, though.
Hopefully John Lewis will clearly outline my options.
You're quite right, of course. I've just felt my hackles rising with these reports of panasonic customer services and was considering options to equalise the fight, but your priority obviously is getting a TV you're satisfied with (or being satisfied with your tv), and JL is definitely the place to start.
THIS member is/was me and I still have the blasted thing. I concur with StrappedForCash when he notes the many problems that have plagued Panasonic TVs over the past few years. Their customer service has left me exasperated and despairing of this company!
"Within specification" is not a good enough excuse, it makes a mockery of their European warranty such that the clause which promises to repair/replace for an inherent fault is rarely likely to be honoured.Yes it can happen, as when What Hifi managed to secure replacements for those with 50hz issues with 2010 Panasonic Plasma TVs.
I did foolishly try to engage with their customer services and their legal dept and came off the worse for it!!
It was not unreasonable of me to expect a replacement TV for the faults this TV has and the poor customer service I received (8 months with their legal team before a take it or leave it refund offer).I was trying to negotiate a settlement, Panasonic UK had different ideas.They have closed communication with me and left me extremely annoyed!!
I know of at least one other Z1 customer (a WHF forum member )with similar problems and after much wrangling and hair tearing he got a refund : lucky Mr King!!
I did ask the current editor Simon Lucas to mediate on my behalf. To date nothing positive has happened.
I would caution anyone considering purchase of a ZT60 to think about what could happen if there are problems with it and your dealer/vendor isn't very understanding.YOU really don't want to be in this position and rely on the manufacturer's warranty.£4,000 of headache would take more than a few paracetemol!
Maybe this year, this reference TV from Panasonic will not be a lemon and need not count to one of your 5 a day! Isn't it a religion to believe a TV will be problem free?
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