It definitely looks more washed out and less sharp, but there seem to be compromises elsewhere. The detail on the shards of light coming through the water seems much improved on the middle pic compared to the top and the extra colours in the middle flowers on the middle pic is remarkable. Just wondering if you can get 'best of both' with a zero colour setting, ie get the sharpness and warmth back but retain the colour contrast and detail. Pro calibration may be the best way, tho expensive!
I see what you mean. I last used the THX optimiser more than 2 years ago, and it's clear that the TV needs re optimising. I don't see much point in spending on pro calibration as I'm planning to change my TV next year anyway. I'll fish those THX optimiser glasses out.
Wife's still not entirely convinced with the idea of watching regular TV on a projector. I've got a whole year to convince her with a few demos.
Do you need to? I've always thought the best combo would be a TV with a remote controlled drop down screen just in front for PJ use for films. In a few years time the amount you'd make selling your tv won't be huge, so why not keep it for TV? Better in daytime than a pj, save the pj lifetime and make watching a film more of an event.
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
And always will be.
I feel sick.
Yes, that's an option as well.
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
You still planning to build your own room? Will you be soffit mounting speakers?
There are too many variables to say anything definitive. We're looking at photographs of televisions and the photographic process introduces its own anomalies. I like all contributors to this thread, so I've no wish to offend anybody. I also have no right to appoint myself diplomat, though hopefully we can all agree on a few things:
1) We have no idea at present how the ZT60 will perform. It might be the best ever mass produced television (even in limited numbers, there'll still be more ZT60s manufactured than professional grade televisions). Alternatively, the ZT60 may come loaded with problems, such as poor screen uniformity, gamma shifts, excessive buzzing, the 50Hz bug, distracting dynamic false contouring and/or dithering, or perhaps a new issue Panasonic is yet to treat us to.
2) Accuracy out of the box is perhaps as important as what's possible with advanced calibration. The ZT60 should offer 10pt white balance control (hopefully in its optimum picture mode). If so, unless serious compromises were made with new tech, reviewers will post ruler flat greyscale tracking and perfect colour reproduction charts. Many videophiles will get the TV professionally calibrated, but there are already televisions capable of perfect greyscale tracking and colour balance post-calibration. The ZT60 needs to deliver more than pretty charts to justify the price tag.
3) Following on from the above, if the ZT60, like other televisions, can be calibrated to reference levels, it's futile debating whether colours look more or less accurate, or more or less washed out in the photographs above. If properly calibrated, primaries will be the correct shade and saturation. Secondary colours will be spot on, too. Since this is true of other TVs, the ZT60 should be classed as reference status in terms of colour reproduction, but it'll be no better or worse than other televisions that can already do the same.
4) We haven't seen a technical review of any of the OLED TVs being sold this year. They may outperform the ZT60 (albeit at even greater cost).
5) At the kind of money we're talking about, a projector represents better value for those able to accommodate one.
6) We don't get anywhere debating hypotheticals, especially with limited information about a television nobody has tested yet.
In short, we're so ill informed at the moment that it's not worth crossing swords...
EDIT: I didn't see the make-up posts before clicking "save," though you're technically a day early, guys....
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112
With the sharpness @ -15 it will only have lost detail as the grey scale is off - if you check all calibrators of Kuros they all say the same sharpness -15 or off.
They do this by looking at test pattern and seeing where artificial edges are added to the image - If you google it you will see what I mean.
Again going from the pics is hard but to ,e the image looks flay with the Panasonic setting -- no depth the land at the back looks on the same plane as the land at the front. Also the image maybe loosing outright detail but that might be as the director intended to give the image a sense of depth etc.
This is why it cannot be done by eye and needs to be measured properly - once you know its correct via that all other settings are wrong.
Meridian G61R, HD621, Bryston 9BSST
Optimised Audio PC - J River / JPlay / Custom Full Linear Power Supply
Panasonic 65VT65, Marantz UD7007, HIFi Racks Podium Reference
Monitor Audio GX100, GXC150, GXFX, BK XLS400 (set with hard knee house curve)
JCAT USB and Sata, Graham Slee Spatia (SC) Graham Slee Lautus Digital / Analogue IC x 9
Yes, that's the plan. My first option is to actually build a house, but haven't found decent land around where I want to live at a reasonable price on internet search. I'm looking at a few houses for sale (only casually). There are a few with 2 living rooms / family rooms. That's my ideal choice, as it would allow me to have a dedicated cinema room. Otherwise, it'll again be a lounge cinema.
Things will become more clear by Feb - March next year when I finish my training and apply for a Consultant's post. I am in talks with the hospital already, but cannot apply until Feb 2014.
I quite fancy floor standers this time, something like Kef R500. Of course, I'm also attracted KK speakers with its massive sub. When I start demoing, I'll know which one will suit me best.
Regarding soffit mounting, depends on the speakers I choose eventually.
I'm looking at getting a JVC projector (4K projectors are quiter expensive this year, hopefully cheaper ones will get 4K upscaling next year).
(By 4K I mean ultra HD!)
The VT50 looks better than the Pioneer 600a, which don't surprise me.
Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.
Let's just hope they don't get the Kuro out next year or else it will start to get embarrassing!
Pioneer TV fanboys should get over themselves!
I just have been.
LOUNGE: Panasonic TX-P50GT50 (is poorly) / Panasonic DMP-BDT120 / Yamaha RX-A2020 / Dali Zensor 3 (front) / Dali Zensor Vokal (centre) / Mordaunt Short MS20i Pearl Edition (rear) / Q Acoustics1000Si (sub) / Roksan Radius 5.2 (is poorly) / Ortofon Super OM20 Cartridge / Sky HD / WD My Book Live 2TB / Seagate Expansion 2TB / Nintendo Wii / Tacima CS-929
BEDROOM: Samsung LE32C450 / Sony BDP-S360 / Echostar HDS-600RS / Netgear WNCE2001
Wow! You two really fell out didn't you. " />
Ahhhhh, atleast you made up.....................even if it did make me ill.
I personally think the quality of TV components have been compromised since the economic downturn, and emergence of Korean heavyweights (Samsung and LG). Given the amount of problems on the previous 3 generations of Panasonic, we can only hope that the 2013 range is free of them.
Did the Kuro ever suffer from problems from new of the magnitude as the Panasonic models? I can't remember any long threads of problems associated with the Kuro.
Even the mighty Kuro wasn't problem free. If you google "Kuro dirty screen effect" you can find posts from disgruntled owners. I've also read a paper on 9th gen Kuro "red tint" problems. (Google "Plasma Diagnostics" and the PDF is online.)
That said, Pioneer treats its customers with greater respect than Panasonic. I haven't read of Pioneer describing a problem as "within specification." Panasonic's repeated use of this phrase is an insult to customers.
In the last three years, rising and floating blacks, motion problems, blobs, and the dirty screen effect have all been "within spec." Panasonic gets away with this because televisions from other manufacturers are even worse.
As much as it's convenient to blame Korean manufacturers, consumers constantly demanding more for less have contributed to the problem too. And thinking in macro-economic terms, we can also blame the architects of the economic crisis for placing the majority of consumers in a position where they need even greater value for money (though as the Pioneer experience taught us, the high end television market isn't sustainable).
Definitely agree! You only had to look on AVForums or try actually buying a second hand one for the fact to discover the problems they actually had. People exchanged numerous ones due to loud buzzing, the problems Strapped has just identified are true too. My personal view of the Pioneer 5090 was that it was not very well made, sure it looked well made and looked the part, but I would definitely take my Panasonic over it.
Not saying there were not well made Pioneer ones too but there were definitely a lot of rubbish ones! Do you know how many faulty ones appear on eBay? Loads!
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