Have your say & ask the experts!

Panasonic ZT60 (now ZT65)

691 replies [Last post]
bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

gel wrote:

I was not having a dig, and I could not careless if you are don't care about my views anyway.  You are always right, everybody else always wrong!  I won' t express my view to you any more!  Like you said you could not care less anyway, sums you up!

Examples of your accusation? I've never tried to prove anyone wrong. I merely express what I think. You do tend to react adversely at anyone speaking against a Panasonic TV or a Pioneer blu ray player. I never challenged the fact that Kuro was surpassed by Panasonic 2 years ago. Heck, I even started a thread on it!

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/panasonic-th-65vx300-co...

A gimmick is a gimmick, & Panasonic didn't have to resort to them (which even you said a couple of pages back). Panasonic's idea of showing a side by side comparison was very smart considering the market it's targeting. But it's this very market of videophiles who will want to know the settings. I merely reproduced Panasonic's settings & showed how much the picture can be altered. This is where Panasonic messed things up. Either show out of the box settings or calibrate the TV properly. Is this unreasonable? Without doubt, the ZT60 will be superior to the Kuro, & possibly the best TV made to date, but the differences are not as large as Panasonic wants us to believe.

I have no idea why you're reacting the way you did to this.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

strapped for cash wrote:

Looking at Panasonic's comparison shots, it'd be interesting to know how white balance is set up on the Kuro.

I've never owned a Kuro, but I've seen a few in action and I don't think they have a problem reproducing reds. Panasonic presumably carefully selected pictures to foreground the development of its new red phosphor. 

As a non-Kuro owner I'm not a Pioneer fanboy; nor would I describe myself as a Panasonic fanboy. I'm simply a videophile of modest means that wants a TV without distracting flaws. I say all this as I'm trying to remain objective.

For non-Kuro owners that want functionality such as 3D and smart features (let's ignore the whole light pen thing, shall we), the ZT60 will likely be the best television available; though let's wait for reviews and user reports before making such a statement. If you're a Kuro owner considering upgrading, you should probably wait to confirm that issues with previous Panasonic plasma televisions have been ironed out. I certainly wouldn't jump in without knowing the ZT60 is free of serious issues,* however deep its blacks and brilliant its reds.

 

*Actually, I wouldn't jump in at all, as I can't afford to, but hypothetically speaking...

Agreed. I'm sure the price will come down to around £3000 ( although there's this caveat of "limited edition"). 

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

gel
gel's picture
Offline
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 11484
RE: Panasonic ZT60

bigboss wrote:

gel wrote:

I was not having a dig, and I could not careless if you are don't care about my views anyway.  You are always right, everybody else always wrong!  I won' t express my view to you any more!  Like you said you could not care less anyway, sums you up!

Examples of your accusation? I've never tried to prove anyone wrong. I merely express what I think. You do tend to react adversely at anyone speaking against a Panasonic TV or a Pioneer blu ray player. I never challenged the fact that Kuro was surpassed by Panasonic 2 years ago. Heck, I even started a thread on it!

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/panasonic-th-65vx300-co... A gimmick is a gimmick, & Panasonic didn't have to resort to them (which even you said a couple of pages back). Panasonic's idea of showing a side by side comparison was very smart considering the market it's targeting. But it's this very market of videophiles who will want to know the settings. I merely reproduced Panasonic's settings & showed how much the picture can be altered. This is where Panasonic messed things up. Either show out of the box settings or calibrate the TV properly. Is this unreasonable? Without doubt, the ZT60 will be superior to the Kuro, & possibly the best TV made to date, but the differences are not as large as Panasonic wants us to believe. I have no idea why you're reacting the way you did to this.

 

Let's get a few things straight, you think Panasonic is the best and always have on here for about the last 3 years and yet you have never even owned one!  You think Oppo is the best and yet same again!

 

Why you keep insulting me now I have no idea!

 

If you don't want to hear what I have to say stop talking to me, it is not that hard!

__________________

 

Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.

BenLaw's picture
Offline
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5909
RE: Panasonic ZT60

bigboss wrote:

Ok, here are the results (quite shocking really):

Original settings:

 

Panasonic's settings

 

Picture after colour +3 (Thanks ellisdj, will keep these settings):

 

I have nothing more to say  Smile

 

These are panasonic's setting for the kuro? I'm not sure it's as clear cut that they're being naughty as is suggested, and may be a lesson in personal taste. The middle pic is more washed out but look at the contrast between the purple tuby things and the pink flowery things in the bottom left. The colours themselves have changed a lot in the bottom pic but there is less contrast, which doesn't look right. The top looks most unnatural. 

 

Then the plants in the bottom centre - they look very samey in both the top and bottom pics. They also all look very purple. Whereas the middle pic reveals a lot of variation, pinks (!), turquoise, light blue, dark blue. Can you show us a pic with same setting but colour in the middle at 0?

 

The pics on the WHF blog also seemed to show some advantages to me with the kuro. The reds seemed weird (too weird) but the top left strawberry had a lot more detail in it and the detail in the blacks of the car seemed a lot more. 

 

As you say, it shows settings are very important and much of it may be subjective. I'd trust a detailed review with measurements such as on avforums to see which can get objectively closest to the 'best' picture, ie most faithful to the source material. But I'm guessing both will be stunningly good and the main reason for spending £4k if you have a ninth gen kuro will be as a periodic update or for features rather than a quantum leap in performance. I also agree PJ will be the best move for many at this price. 

__________________

HiFi   /   A/V   /   Bedroom

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

gel wrote:

Let's get a few things straight, you think Panasonic is the best and always have on here for about the last 3 years and yet you have never even owned one!  You think Oppo is the best and yet same again!

 

Why you keep insulting me now I have no idea!

 

If you don't want to hear what I have to say stop talking to me, it is not that hard!

1) Although I haven't owned a Panasonic TV on an Oppo player, I have demoed them.

2) When did I say Oppo is the best? I said the Oppo should've got 4 stars for the amount of features it has. You already know my view that all blu ray players perform the same when it comes to blu ray picture performance. And I'm certainly not blindly partial to the Oppo. Check my comment on this thread:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/blu-ray-players/cambridge-audio-752bd-now-...

3) Where have I insulted you? If you felt that way I apologise.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

gel
gel's picture
Offline
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 11484
RE: Panasonic ZT60

bigboss wrote:

gel wrote:

Let's get a few things straight, you think Panasonic is the best and always have on here for about the last 3 years and yet you have never even owned one!  You think Oppo is the best and yet same again!

 

Why you keep insulting me now I have no idea!

 

If you don't want to hear what I have to say stop talking to me, it is not that hard!

1) Although I haven't owned a Panasonic TV on an Oppo player, I have demoed them.

2) When did I say Oppo is the best? I said the Oppo should've got 4 stars for the amount of features it has. You already know my view that all blu ray players perform the same when it comes to blu ray picture performance. And I'm certainly not blindly partial to the Oppo. Check my comment on this thread:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/blu-ray-players/cambridge-audio-752bd-now-... 3) Where have I insulted you? If you felt that way I apologise.

 

You said I had a dig at you - did not.  You said you could not care less about my views!

 

As things go I really really like you, and if I have done something to upset you I apologise too.  Smile

__________________

 

Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

BenLaw wrote:

These are panasonic's setting for the kuro? I'm not sure it's as clear cut that they're being naughty as is suggested, and may be a lesson in personal taste. The middle pic is more washed out but look at the contrast between the purple tuby things and the pink flowery things in the bottom left. The colours themselves have changed a lot in the bottom pic but there is less contrast, which doesn't look right. The top looks most unnatural. 

 

Then the plants in the bottom centre - they look very samey in both the top and bottom pics. They also all look very purple. Whereas the middle pic reveals a lot of variation, pinks (!), turquoise, light blue, dark blue. Can you show us a pic with same setting but colour in the middle at 0?

 

The pics on the WHF blog also seemed to show some advantages to me with the kuro. The reds seemed weird (too weird) but the top left strawberry had a lot more detail in it and the detail in the blacks of the car seemed a lot more. 

 

As you say, it shows settings are very important and much of it may be subjective. I'd trust a detailed review with measurements such as on avforums to see which can get objectively closest to the 'best' picture, ie most faithful to the source material. But I'm guessing both will be stunningly good and the main reason for spending £4k if you have a ninth gen kuro will be as a periodic update or for features rather than a quantum leap in performance. I also agree PJ will be the best move for many at this price. 

Yes, they are Panasonic settings for the Kuro. I thought the middle pic colours look unnatural and washed out. I'll click some more pics in the next couple of days with Panasonic's settings & colour at 0. It is difficult to,say what's natural & what's unnatural with an animated image!  Smile

We all have different taste, I thought there was more detail on the 1st pic, especially the blue flowers on bottom left, and I preferred the last pic but with more sharpness.

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

gel wrote:

You said I had a dig at you - did not.  You said you could not care less about my views!

As things go I really really like you, and if I have done something to upset you I apologise too.  Smile

I thought you called me an idiot.  puzzled

Anyway, bygones are bygones.  Smile

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

BenLaw's picture
Offline
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5909
RE: Panasonic ZT60

bigboss wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

These are panasonic's setting for the kuro? I'm not sure it's as clear cut that they're being naughty as is suggested, and may be a lesson in personal taste. The middle pic is more washed out but look at the contrast between the purple tuby things and the pink flowery things in the bottom left. The colours themselves have changed a lot in the bottom pic but there is less contrast, which doesn't look right. The top looks most unnatural. 

 

Then the plants in the bottom centre - they look very samey in both the top and bottom pics. They also all look very purple. Whereas the middle pic reveals a lot of variation, pinks (!), turquoise, light blue, dark blue. Can you show us a pic with same setting but colour in the middle at 0?

 

The pics on the WHF blog also seemed to show some advantages to me with the kuro. The reds seemed weird (too weird) but the top left strawberry had a lot more detail in it and the detail in the blacks of the car seemed a lot more. 

 

As you say, it shows settings are very important and much of it may be subjective. I'd trust a detailed review with measurements such as on avforums to see which can get objectively closest to the 'best' picture, ie most faithful to the source material. But I'm guessing both will be stunningly good and the main reason for spending £4k if you have a ninth gen kuro will be as a periodic update or for features rather than a quantum leap in performance. I also agree PJ will be the best move for many at this price. 

Yes, they are Panasonic settings for the Kuro. I thought the middle pic colours look unnatural and washed out. I'll click some more pics in the next couple of days with Panasonic's settings & colour at 0. It is difficult to,say what's natural & what's unnatural with an animated image!  Smile

We all have different taste, I thought there was more detail on the 1st pic, especially the blue flowers on bottom left, and I preferred the last pic but with more sharpness.

 

It definitely looks more washed out and less sharp, but there seem to be compromises elsewhere. The detail on the shards of light coming through the water seems much improved on the middle pic compared to the top and the extra colours in the middle flowers on the middle pic is remarkable. Just wondering if you can get 'best of both' with a zero colour setting, ie get the sharpness and warmth back but retain the colour contrast and detail. Pro calibration may be the best way, tho expensive!

__________________

HiFi   /   A/V   /   Bedroom

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

BenLaw wrote:

It definitely looks more washed out and less sharp, but there seem to be compromises elsewhere. The detail on the shards of light coming through the water seems much improved on the middle pic compared to the top and the extra colours in the middle flowers on the middle pic is remarkable. Just wondering if you can get 'best of both' with a zero colour setting, ie get the sharpness and warmth back but retain the colour contrast and detail. Pro calibration may be the best way, tho expensive!

I see what you mean. I last used the THX optimiser more than 2 years ago, and it's clear that the TV needs re optimising. I don't see much point in spending on pro calibration as I'm planning to change my TV next year anyway. I'll fish those THX optimiser glasses out.

Wife's still not entirely convinced with the idea of watching regular TV on a projector. I've got a whole year to convince her with a few demos.  Wink

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

gel
gel's picture
Offline
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 11484
RE: Panasonic ZT60

bigboss wrote:

gel wrote:

You said I had a dig at you - did not.  You said you could not care less about my views!

As things go I really really like you, and if I have done something to upset you I apologise too.  Smile

I thought you called me an idiot.  puzzled

Anyway, bygones are bygones.  Smile

 

I hardly think you are an idiot!  Smile  I was talking in a general sense about the side by side comparison.  Why they have done that I still don't know!

 

Friends?  Smile

__________________

 

Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.

davidvann's picture
Offline
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 139
RE: Panasonic ZT60

let's face it guys ,next year there will be a bigger better tv by someone next year ,well never be able to keep up with the new tec that comes out each year,  i 've had quiet a few tv's in my time phillips, sony, lowe,pioneer i've enjoyed them all ,and is'nt that whats all about.i still love my kuro ,but the new pannels from panasonic are very good,i even like the led to,which i thought  i'd never say. cheers david

 

__________________

pioneer lx 508d / arcam bdp100 / klyne 7 preamp / monachy power amp / kochel horn loaded speakers / xlo limited edition cables and power chords / russ andrews power block / chord hdmi cable

gel
gel's picture
Offline
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 11484
RE: Panasonic ZT60

davidvann wrote:

let's face it guys ,next year there will be a bigger better tv by someone next year ,well never be able to keep up with the new tec that comes out each year,  i 've had quiet a few tv's in my time phillips, sony, lowe,pioneer i've enjoyed them all ,and is'nt that whats all about.i still love my kuro ,but the new pannels from panasonic are very good,i even like the led to,which i thought  i'd never say. cheers david

 

 

Agree.  Smile

__________________

 

Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.

bigboss's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 11799
RE: Panasonic ZT60

gel wrote:

Friends?  Smile

Always been.  Smile

__________________

My Home Cinema  Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90

Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H

Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router

gel
gel's picture
Offline
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 11484
RE: Panasonic ZT60

bigboss wrote:

gel wrote:

Friends?  Smile

Always been.  Smile

 

And always will be.  Smile

 

beauty, eh   Mate.

__________________

 

Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad 4 & iPhone 4S.