I read that myself quite a few years back. I may still have the book somewhere around.
I think the only way quit is to be tough on yourself. I'll report back in a week on my progress. Having made it this far (the first week feels like a long time), I'll be furious with myself if I slip up now.
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112
Just found this on the review of the 65VT50 - quite interesting and in complete stark opposite contrast to what Gel said earlier in the thread
The Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s best contrast performance is reserved for the [THX Cinema] mode. This mode achieves startlingly deep black levels which measure at an incredibly deep 0.005 cd/m2, combined with whites that reach around 90 cd/m2 (we say “around” because it depends on the average picture level of the content). The only flat-screen HDTVs to better these results are the last KURO plasma televisions produced before Pioneer exited the TV business (not surprisingly, most owners of those displays are unwilling to part with them). Our review of the Pioneer PDP-LX5090 back in 2008 found black levels of 0.003 cd/m2, making the Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s 0.005 cd/m2 a very close match (it will be impossible to see the difference of 0.002 cd/m2 without scrutinising both screens, side by side, in a pitch black room). It’s taken a while for Panasonic to (more or less) match the absolute black depth of Pioneer’s long-gone displays, but they’ve achieved it at the 65″ size – in one of the picture modes. The overall contrast performance is still not as high, though, because the KURO plasmas could produce searingly bright whites as well.
.......In the [Professional] modes, which do unlock the full range of calibration options, contrast performance takes a hit. Black rises to 0.016 cd/m2, which is still excellent, but is no longer in KURO territory. More worryingly, peak light output is significantly dimmed, with a full 100% white window measuring just 65 cd/m2 after calibration (down from an already dim-ish 70 cd/m2 before
Where did you find this rubbish? And I said nothing of the performance of the VT50 65 inch get your facts straight before going throwing the odds!
Everybody knows a smaller screen will give a better black reading, so it is complete rubbish! But hey most people posting on this thread have talked nothing but rubbish!
I'm not sure if that's always right about a smaller screen giving a better black reading. Certainly Steve Withers of AV Forums didn't think so when he reviewed my Samsung PS64D8000, here http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-D8000-(PS-64D8000)-3D-Plasma-TV-Review_213/Review.html , and specifically this paragraph "The one area where Samsung's plasmas have traditionally had a weakness has been black levels but it would seem that the company has stepped up a notch this year. Last year there were reports of big differences in black levels depending on the refresh rate of the panel and this year we have had similar reports, along with suggestions that the black levels are better on the larger panels. Well, since we had already reviewed the PS51D8000, the arrival of the PS64D8000 allowed us an opportunity to check these claims. Whilst it is true that the measured black level does vary depending on the output refresh rate of the panel, to our surprise the overall black level measurements of the 64" panel actually were slightly better than the 51" version."
Click here to read about my system
I am trying to stay away from this thread.
But here you will see what the Panasonic 50VT50 measures in at.
When HomeCinemaChoice done the black ratings the 5090 measured in better than the 6090.
Like I said I am going to take a break.
Main AV Setup: Panasonic 50VT65 TV, Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1, Optimum AV300 AV Stand, QED Silver Anniversary XT Speaker Cable & Chord Silver Plus HDMI Cables. Gadgets: iPad Air & iPhone 4S.
Thanks for the link - that is an interesting review - and while more indepth than some it is still weak/vague by comparison to others.
It highlights the VT50 as having 0.03 black level and 90cd/m2 luminance
The LX5090 has 0.0031 black level and 136cd/m2 luminance so the figures go the other way to your arguement.
While the differerence will be negligable in the real world side by side it would show.
If you want where my stats came from
Meridian G61R, HD621, Bryston 9BSST
Optimised Audio PC - J River / JPlay / Custom Full Linear Power Supply
Panasonic 65VT65, Marantz UD7007, HIFi Racks Podium Reference
Monitor Audio GX100, GXC150, Apex A10, BK XLS400 (set with hard knee house curve)
JCAT USB and Sata, Graham Slee Spatia (SC) Graham Slee Lautus Digital / Analogue IC x 9
You're only going to have 1 TV in a room, &, when enjoying your favourite film, are you going to rue the 0.0001 cd/m2 difference in black levels or enjoy your film?
There's no point in discussing black levels when it comes to such minuscule differences. You'll never notice in real world, as you'll never watch a film simultaneously on 2 different TVs side by side!
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
I agree that a difference of 0.001 in black level matters not at all. However, surely a luminance of 90cd/m2 for the VT50 is significantly less than the 136cd/m2 for the Pioneer 5090, and that luminance difference would be noticeable in real-living-room performance (as it happens, in favour of the Pioneer, but that doesn't mean that I'm an unthinking Pioneer fanboy)?
of course not - but this is why I am so interested in the ZT as the VT's have not been worth investing in as an exisitng 5090 owner - heres hoping all the strengths none of the weaknesses...
I dont see why anyone would sell their 5090 to get another set unless they desperately wanted 3D or there was something wrong with it.
But again we need to know just how good it really is for its lofty price tag - looking forward to it
I can't comment upon the VT50 and the screen brightness, but I have heard it is darker than the GT50 and ST50, pretty sure Strapped and BBB have had to turn it down on the GT50, I personally like it bright, on Blu-ray in comparison with the 5090 to me the GT50 looks brighter, I seem to get more of a wow from Blu-rays. They are really similar though, if there is nothing wrong with your Pioneer - definitely keep it.
I can't comment upon the VT50 and the screen brightness, but I have heard it is darker than the GT50 and ST50, pretty sure Strapped and BBB have had to turn it down on the GT50, I personally like it bright, on Blu-ray in comparison with the 5090 to me the GT50 looks brighter, I seem to get more of a wow from Blu-rays.
This is perhaps why you don't notice the dirty screen effect; for whatever reason, it's less evident on the Normal preset than on any other. If you're using a higher contrast setting, too, this would mask the problem further.
I can't eradicate the dirty screen effect on my GT50, but I can reduce the problem by cranking the contrast up on the Normal preset. Unfortunately the picture looks too bright and unstable to my eyes, so I'm left scrambling for the remote. The higher contrast setting also makes the TV buzz a little more.
I might ask John Lewis when the GT60 will be in stock. Perhaps I can get a refund and borrow a TV from a friend or family member for a month or so. The borrowed TV wouldn't need to be great; just something that'll produce a picture for a few weeks to fill the gap. I say that in the hope that the GT60 will have better screen uniformity, which is dangerous to assume.
I agree with this. As I think do the manufacturers. This is why they advertise a gazillion to one contrast ratio, rather than the luminance of the blacks.
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
In my case, I would now want Freeview HD, although a separate Freeview HD or Freesat HD box would do the trick, but without the issues of a new television. I now have a twice-bought LG 60PZ950T in the kitchen (the Pioneer 5090 is now in the second bedroom) which although its black level isn't as good as even my 8th generation Kuro (now in the bedroom) is very sharp and detailed, with lovely colours I think, but the main reason was that I wanted a bigger set - my kitchen is 17 feet by 13 feet, with the TV at one end, and the 50" Pioneer was beginning to look a bit small! But I haven't (and don't expect to) sold my 5090!
You really have got to give another GT50 a chance, I would definitely swap again. That thing with the bright screen and buzzing I thought might be true too but on my third one, it is definitely not. But that did cross my mind too.
One other thing I might do if I was you is change it for the VT50 and see how you get on.
Other than that just keep changing.
the zt60 does look great but unfortunately its doubtful i'd be able to fit one in my house without a major rethink of where all the av gear is.. hopefully if its succesfull this year, panasonic might look at adding a 50" next year.. my 42VT30 is still great though so apart from lacking a little in size i will hold out for a couple of more years
Panasonic 42VT30 Plasma, Denon AVR 3310, Opp BD93, MA Radius 225HD left/centre/right, MA Radius 90HD surrounds, RSw12 sub, Harmony 1100 remote, Project RPM5 Turntable
I'm not convinced I'd be any better off with another replacement GT50. My first two had very different build dates, though the more time I spend with my current GT50, the more certain I am that the dirty screen effect is exactly the same as on the first set. If John Lewis would let me test replacements in store, until I can find one that's better, it'd probably be worth it; though of course no store would allow this and it would be unreasonable to ask.
I meant to call JL today about options, but didn't get round to it. It's a job for tomorrow...
It's no good comparing test results from another source, were they tested under ideal conditions : mains quality, lighting etc.
IF you deep black lovers really want to excel, consider getting an electrician to install a dedicated mains spur for your equipment. A filtered power block with isolation e.g.a Belkin PureAV Isolator can also help with sharpness and black levels.
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