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theflyingwasp's picture
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How black can black levels get

Cnet has just reviewed the new Samsung 55 oled and its blacker than any plasma ,this years flagship samsung ,Sony and panasonic are all amazing plasmas but even the calibrators at the value electronics show said they were just nit picking when it came to which was best,does anyone know all the black levels on these plasmas ,or is it all just getting a bit silly.

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RE: How black can black levels get

Other AV websites give measurements like this one:

 

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-tx-p50vt65-p15311/test.html#full-review

 

0.03 seems to hit reference quality.  I guess they go lower than that with new OLEDs.

Home cinema system: Panasonic 50VT65 (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

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RE: How black can black levels get

It can't be blacker than the surface of the screen when it's powered off.

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RE: How black can black levels get

Good link,0.03 that pretty low,I think the zt65 is 0.02 ,what was the Kuro?

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RE: How black can black levels get

theflyingwasp wrote:

Good link,0.03 that pretty low,I think the zt65 is 0.02 ,what was the Kuro?

 

The Pioneer 5090 measured in at 0.03 to 0.04 (I think), the 500a is said to go deeper perhaps, but reading all the comments and reviews this year the VT65 and ZT65 measured in the best.  I can't find any links to back this up at the moment though but that is what I remember reading.

Home cinema system: Panasonic 50VT65 (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

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RE: How black can black levels get

You definitely have the best TV around.   Smile

Home cinema system: Panasonic 50VT65 (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

Gadgets: iPad 4 and iPhone 4s.  Headphones: B&O H6.  Dab radio: Roberts Dreamtime.

 

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RE: How black can black levels get

None. None more black.

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RE: How black can black levels get

I think when you get down to these black levels (eg ZT vs VT vs Kuro) you have to be watching in absolute black-out conditions anyway to notice any difference, and even then the human eye would struggle to discern the difference. I can't say I've noticed the ZT being better than my old 5090 kuro in black levels, the main improvements I've noted have been around colour fidelity and picture clarity/sharpness. 

Re OLEDs, even if I could justify the cost (which I couldn't) there's no way I'd want a curved screen, just seems like a gimmick that would be more of a distraction than a benefit?

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RE: How black can black levels get

That clears that up then Smile as for the curved screen I wouldn't mind seeing one in action in the pitch black sitting right in the centre of the screen ,people on the left and right MUST be getting the short straw .

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RE: How black can black levels get
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RE: How black can black levels get

My understanding is that the KRPs still best the VT/ZT when it comes to MLL; though as Mr Malarky says, this is only relevant when watching in a blacked out room.

The debate as to whether the last Kuros remain reference televisions therefore rages on. If you think black level is the only important marker of image quality, the KRPs remain the reference. As stated above, however, newer televisions best the KRPs in other areas of picture performance and in terms of functionality. 

Hopefully the curved screen will be consigned to history as/if OLED TVs become more affordable and widely owned. It seems more a case of "we did it because we could" and "this clearly distinguishes OLED from other panel technologies" than something that genuinely enhances the viewing experience.

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RE: How black can black levels get

theflyingwasp wrote:

Cnet has just reviewed the new Samsung 55 oled and its blacker than any plasma ,this years flagship samsung ,Sony and panasonic are all amazing plasmas

I didn't realise that Sony made plasmas, certainly I've not heard of Sony plasmas in Britain .....

mr malarky wrote:

I think when you get down to these black levels (eg ZT vs VT vs Kuro) you have to be watching in absolute black-out conditions anyway to notice any difference, and even then the human eye would struggle to discern the difference. I can't say I've noticed the ZT being better than my old 5090 kuro in black levels, the main improvements I've noted have been around colour fidelity and picture clarity/sharpness.

When Steve Withers was calibrating my sets, he said that there was very little between a ninth-generation Pioneer Kuro, the VT and the ZT for pure black level. And I certainly don't, and don't want to, watch in absolute black-out conditions.

mr malarky wrote:

Re OLEDs, even if I could justify the cost (which I couldn't) there's no way I'd want a curved screen, just seems like a gimmick that would be more of a distraction than a benefit?

That curved OLED screen is a seriously BAD IDEA, fine if you are in the middle but distorted if you are sitting to either side. About as bad an idea as the pen that Panasonic have given to owners of VT and ZT plasmas to write on their precious sets with, grrrr! |(

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RE: How black can black levels get

Son_of_SJ wrote:

I certainly don't, and don't want to, watch in absolute black-out conditions.

I don't often, but it's nice to turn the lights off once in a while to watch a film. 3D movies are certainly best viewed in a blacked-out room, though obviously the KRPs are pre-3D televisions and the conversation becomes redundant. MLL is typically sacrificed with 3D viewing anyway. It's one of the trade-offs for the extra panel luminance 3D viewing demands.

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RE: How black can black levels get

Yes I doubt anyone has used that daft pen to write on their £3000 TV screen ,yes eh perhaps I should read what I post first Sony did pull out of the plasma market a while back,

 

I always draw the blackout curtains when watching movies ,with the sound cranked up and the room in almost complete darkness I feel you get drawn into the movie more,was at the cinema last year watching dark shadows and there was a problem with the light the first 30mins of the film was shown with the lights on it was very very weird.

 

As for oled ,curved oled and 4k I'm very bored of it already,it will have to take something very special for me to upgrade from the ZT ,this whole no content farce with 4k is the main reason and as for this Sony streaming service for u.s Sony 4k owners I wouldn't stream a film from my ipad to my tv let alone that for $700 ,I will just wait till there is a disc of some sort to put into my new blu/red/pink player.i also feel that someone who can actually afford the 25grand Sony 84 inch 4k TV has better things to do in life than watch movies.

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RE: How black can black levels get

When our good friend gel started the ZT60 thread he said

gel wrote:

Forget Kuro black levels these are more like OLED level!   Dirol

and we all bought into that, for a while anyway, until the various TVs were tested side by side. Ah well. I suspect, with no real knowledge, that there is probably not much real benefit to be gained by trying to get beyond the ZT  / 9th generation Kuro / VT levels of blackness, certainly not while using current plasma technology.

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RE: How black can black levels get

Son_of_SJ wrote:

When our good friend gel started the ZT60 thread he said

gel wrote:

Forget Kuro black levels these are more like OLED level!   Dirol

and we all bought into that, for a while anyway, until the various TVs were tested side by side. Ah well. I suspect, with no real knowledge, that there is probably not much real benefit to be gained by trying to get beyond the ZT  / 9th generation Kuro / VT levels of blackness, certainly not while using current plasma technology.

 

Deepest black levels CNET have tested the ZT65:

 

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/panasonic-tx-p60zt65-review-50011762/

 

I suppose we will just have to wait for the measurements and reports on OLED TVs.

Home cinema system: Panasonic 50VT65 (THX calibrated), Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

Gadgets: iPad 4 and iPhone 4s.  Headphones: B&O H6.  Dab radio: Roberts Dreamtime.

 

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