I have never noticed any delay in the audio stanley when connected directly to the panel. I must admit i dont use any of the features in the tuner box so i never use it. Its still in its box(and i kinda like the vivid picture)
You're might be right with the you cant install the same firmware version again.
I've never understood why the remote doesnt work the set itself. Never been an issue for me really, just another remote to put with the collection on the table. Didn't realise another Panasonic remote will work it.
Good luck with it mate. If you paid full whack for the TV you would hope it to last a long time.
@StanleyAV. How are you getting on with this issue? I believe I have exactly the same issue as you on my z1 and I am thus far less than pleased with Panasonic and their ability to diagnose and fix this issue. Panasonic have attempted three fixes now over the last three months, non of which have made any difference.
I understand that you are to receive a new tuner box which I have my fingers crossed for you resolves your issue but I am not convinced it will. I have the same issue regardless of source and can reproduce on demand when connected directly to the tv, totally bypassing the tuner box.
My last communication with Panasonic two days ago was very frustrating as they requested video evidence of this issue knowing full well that I can't capture the issue on camera as we tried that two months ago! Starting to feel very let down and the Panasonic store from where I purchased it refused to give me a refund 6 months into my 5 year warranty as it was "against company policy to accept returns after two weeks of ownership".
Another question, why is this thread so much shorter than the one that I have saved via the google cache? There seems to be a lot of interesting conversation that "went missing"!
@RussKing UK, I have received a new tuner box, but it is not at the current firmware I am still awaiting an SD card update from the Viera Product Manager to see if the problem is fully resolved by a change of hardware. I am not so sure.
I suggest you direct your issue to Clare Newsome to speak with Fabrice directly. He was adamant that no one else had the problem - my reason for swapping the box out. I had tried the source directly into the panel and the panel was not to blame.
NB the Panel has a fixed version of picture software which bears little relation to the tuner box versions. IF the panel was to blame it would make the same error in GAME mode and across ALL material.
We may well be looking at a software issue, like I have said many times, GAME mode is unaffected. Ask yourself what are the chances of two owners having hardware errors on their boxes? What software are you at? I am now at 2.410, was previously at 2.506.
The GAME mode when viewing BBC's The Tudors reveals there are subtle contrast shifts within the original source, that the errant software looks to be amplifying to an erroneous degree. This is not a 'floating black' issue necessarily, more an error with contrast processing in general I would say.
Are you positive a videocam can't capture this issue? The only sure way to show the fault is for a Panasonic engineer to witness it - can you see that happening? On my first box films such as Small Soldiers (ITV1 HD) and V is for Vendetta (BBC2) had flashing objects in foreground or in the background. BBC Tudors could also be problematical with brief flashes in faces as well as background contrast issues. Recent example albeit at 2.410 firmware is BBC HD/BBC 2's Christopher and his Kind where contrast shifts in background could be seen (not flashes as on later firmware??).
Why aren't Panasonic testing their software with such broadcasts? Do we now have a compatibility issue with dark scened content? I.E. the software can't process the broadcast correctly.
I will post further when I am able to apply a more recent firmware.
@StanleyAV, I feel for you. I see looking at threads across various other well known A/V forums that you have been battling with this since at least November last year! I thought my three unsuccessful board replacements in three months was bad enough!
I received the tv with 2.407 preinstalled which is the firmware revision I had when I reported the issue to Panasonic. The engineer updated me to 2.506 in December via ethernet and that made no difference.
I have just attempted to capture this issue again using a 1080p camcorder. The flickering is happening rather violently on demand but unfortunately, is not picked up by the camera.
The following YouTube video here I think represents the same issue but this time, with another Panasonic plasma model, the 42PZ85. It's very subtle compared to what I see on my set but it is still indicative of the symptom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLKJrO4I_EI&feature=related
I have (via the engineer) posted this YouTube link to Panasonic already but I am told they still need a recording from my set. I'm a little upset by this as if they require the video as an example of the symptom, they already have this in the video above. This further request makes me feel like I am having to provide proof that I am not fabricating the issue.
I would say the issue is most noticable in scenes of high contrast. True Blood, Boardwalk Empire and the Twilight Saga are good examples to reproduce the issue on demand due to the pale flesh tones against more vivid surroundings.
I originally used Twilight New Moon recorded via SkyHD as demo material for the engineer but can easilly reproduce in the same scenes via the retail DVD played back on a number of devices including PS3 and PC Media Centers. I even gave the DVD to the engineer who said they could not reproduce the issue with other models back at the shop. If you would like to check that out, please look at chapter 17, 1:48:40 being a good example (of many!). All of this of course is reproducable for me either via the tuner box or directly fed into the panel via hdmi.
@ClaireNewsome, please do discuss this with Fabrice as StanleyAV is not the only person who has reported this issue. I too have reported this and that dates back to December 2010.
@RussKing Based on my first box - I can say performing an occasional power cycle of the box or a full shipping reset can lessen the symptoms : not so great if its kicking off during a live broadcast mind! However, I believe my sample of box was making this issue worse than it ought to be; it has been noted that less phosphor lag from panning is occuring on this new sample e.g. the abrupt scene switches on BBC's Mrs Brown's Boys.
I do recall this flicker with the PZ series. And yes there is a facial flicker present on the Z1. However most of my gripe has been with background or foreground objects flashing with erroneous contrast changes. It remains to be seen if applying new firmware to this newer box helps or not: very little point judging an earlier firmware.
As to your witnessing it on the panel itself, you are still looking at software which is fixed for the panel, against tuner software which is not. The tuner software overrides whatever the panel does - the closest passthru mode is GAME mode and in this mode the problems I encounter vanish!! Have you tried GAME mode to see if your problems vanish? If, so it can be seen that revised software is the answer to this problem.
Your best bet would be for Fabrice to get a Panasonic engineer onsite and stop this faffing around. At the very least your engineer (assuming he's from a local Panasonic dealer/service centre) should be having firm words with Panasonic technical.
@RussKing Based on my first box - I can say performing an occasional power cycle of the box or a full shipping reset can lessen the symptoms
In my experience I completely agree with. It is only a temporary reprieve however and the issue reoccurs within a couple of hours.
I do see both issues (facial and background) but the YouTube video was simply the best example of this I could find. I still can't pick this up on a camcorder.
You may be on to something here. I have just tried game mode calibrated more closely to THX and the issue is better but still there.
The engineer is from my local Panasonic service centre and has been in contact with Panasonic Technical throughout this process. Between them they have replaced the A-PCB, B-PCB and the DA board in the panel while also updating the firmware in the tuner box. Unfortunately, none of these have had any effect on the issue.
I strongly believe that four attempts in three months is a sufficient opportunity to put right the fault and am therefore seeking a refund through the Panasonic Store from which I purchased it. The problem here of course is the Panasonic Store is telling me that Panasonic must authorise the refund and so I have Panasonic customer services looking into this matter for me. I am hoping I will receive a call from them tomorrow advising that a refund has been authorised but given the way this has been bouncing around over the past three months, I am not optimistic. I suspect I will be forced to take this to the small claims court simply to obtain something that I am legally entitled to. Way to go Panasonic!
I feel for you that you have had board replacements that don't resolve it. OUCH!!
You are perfectly right after several repair attempts, the Sale of Goods Act is quite specific as to your rights to a refund. Moreover your dealer/engineer has witnessed these faults so can't deny that they aren't there. After 6 months you may require an independant report from another dealer or engineer to back up your claim in court.
It's for you to decide whether you want to go to court or get them to investigate and resolve the matter to your satisfaction. That would need to involved the product manager in order to get anywhere with this.
Your dilemma with this, is what would you replace the Z1 with? All the 2010 models have issues with 50hz material and even have floating black issues which make the Z1 issues look mild! I have been there with two terrible V20 models!
I think the new G30 models will be available soon, you could see if Panasonic would exchange your Z1 for a 50" model; however that might not suit if you have the 54" Z1.
My reasons for sticking with Z1 : the brightness level is more suited to me, it does behave with 50hz, its style and design are more to my liking.
None of the 2010 models would suit me, nor would another make : plasma does give the best performance and you simply can't achieve good black and contrast levels elsewhere. The 2011 models are still an unknown quantity - connectivity wise losing the legacy connections would be a right pain for me.
I suggest you email Clare at WhatHifi (mark it for her attention) after considering your options Russ. Its unfortunate that both you and I are between a rock and a hard place on this one!
I have received an SD card today, so will know soon whether its is better or worse than at present. I have seen improvement one box compared to the other, so maybe an update is all that is needed for me!?
Perhaps you need to consider a box swap out? Getting a refund just makes a replacement choice very hard!
@RussKing, the best Panasonic were able to supply me with was version 2.503 of the Z1 software. As you suspected this contrast rise and fall is still present; picture sharpness is improved mind
This flash type effect is seen in faces or backgrounds - my samples on my Humax box are mild : it was more of an issue in a recent BBC drama Christopher and his Kind. It certainly does not affect all program material : I expect your samples are more acute than mine.
I have reported the issue again to Fabrice and mentioned your difficulties. It still would be worth emailing Clare here, so she can put you two in touch.
I firmly believe this is a software bug and needs addressing. Some issues I had on my first box are much better : I suffered really bad 'floating black' type problems - rarely seen on this 2nd box sample.
It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bath water for want of a software update : the alternatives you face instead of the Z1 aren't too good.
It will be a really long wait for the top models in the 2011 range - this disaster in Japan will set back production for sometime notwithstanding the usual long rollout process from Panasonic.
Hi StanleyAV and thank you for your feedback. I'm sorry to hear that the new(ish) firmware did not resolve the issue for you. I had my fingers crossed but wasn't confident enough to hold my breath!
I have been considering the "worst case" scenario of which tv if not the Z1 for a few weeks now as I was not confident this was ever going to be resolved. I agree entirely that a suitable replacement is incredibly difficult to establish. I purchased the Z1 (46") for not only it's supposed flagship picture quality but also the design aesthetics. I required a slim profile which immediately rules out the current Panasonic alternatives. Also as you mention, the 2010 models have "alleged" design issues which is a whole world of pain I am simply unwilling to get into. I think the only Panasonic alternative I would currently consider is the 2011 VT30 but even then, I would have to see one in the flesh/plastic before I could consider.
Excuse my naivety but who is Fabrice? I would very much like for Fabrice to acknowledge my issue in the hope that some sort or resolution can finally be found. How would I go about contacting Clare in order to progress this? I can't locate her email address?
As regards this being a software issue, I do tend to agree but there is just one thing that prevents me from accepting this entirely. If this is indeed a software issue; one which I can reproduce in an early firmware thru to the latest, this issue must exist in the vast majority of sets. I would imagine the target market for the Z1 are those that take great pride in image quality. I'm sure within this level of consumer, a much larger number would notice this issue other than you and I?
BTW, any advice on how to clean the screen? It came back from the service centre with finger and palm prints all over it. I thought these sets had an anti glare coating which you simply shouldn't touch. Not sure I'll get this back to the pristine state in which I supplied it?
The Viera Product Manager for Europe I am referring to. Clare Newsome the editor of What Hifi can be emailed thus
email@example.com : mark it for her attention. There may be a telephone no in the magazine : that would be much better!!
Given the original prohibitive pricing for the Z1 I doubt that many users in the UK, let alone Europe have one ; I expect existing stocks at the reduced price have now given it a better airing. Many users purchasing in 2009 went for the V10 instead.
It could be that earlier software - when the Z1 was reviewed - did not have this issue or review material did not pick up on it!!
I have asked around about this problem (as I was tearing my hair out) but no one seems to have encountered it : very strange!! I am of the opinion that I had a box problem too : I had 'floating blacks' as it is known too : yet this new box is OK for this! HUH!??
As for cleaning the screen : you should try a microfibre cloth - available in most hardware stores : one moist one to remove the dirt, a dry one to gently buff dry. If the dirt is stubborn you can use an unscented Dettol wipe (not the citrus one!!!) and then a microfibre cloth to buff dry (ensure there are no smears left : direct a light source towards your screen).
I am thankful that I haven't had to send my panel away, its not an inconvenience you want!!
I don't envy you in your difficult choice : for design the Z1 is a winner, it really is a matter of the software in the tuner box!
You won't necessarily like the VT30 picture, on reflection I now wouldn't even prefer the V20 or VT20 of last year. Look and feel of the picture is of equal importance to the overall design. I hope you are able to stick with Z1 IF this matter gets resolved!!?
Just as an update: all these details now with Panasonic, who've said they're on the case.
Group PR Manager - Computers Unlimited;
Former Group Editor of What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision and Whathifi.com
Thanks for that Clare. I hope they sort Russ out, he has the greater need - especially after all he's been through!
I can afford to be patient now my box has been replaced and f/w 2.503 applied.
Well things are still moving very slowly! After being promised updates twice and not receiving them I finally decided to chase myself. Panasonic are apparently still unable to reproduce the issue with the Z1 they have in their lab. Forgive me but shouldn't they be trying to reproduce the issue with "my" Z1 seeing as it is the one with the fault? If I phoned a garage and told them I had a problem with the brakes on my car, I wouldn't expect the garage to tell me that one of their mechanics has the same car so they will check the brakes on that one and get back to me. After four months of blindly changing pcb's with no real analysis of my problem, having the set returned with signs of damage and finger prints all over the screen (say goodbye to that AR coating!), I am definitely feeling like I'm being given the run around! I think I will detail my entire experience in a letter and copy in Keith Evans, MD of Panasonic UK.
I have attached below two you tube videos of the problem as recorded from my setup. The first was taken by the Panasonic appointed engineer and uses the DVD of Twilight: New Moon as discussed previously. The second was taken this morning and uses a Sky HD broadcast of V Season 2. Both examples "barely" show the issue so I am not sure how Panasonic intend to diagnose the issue using these but I have included them anyway.
Anyway, have a good weekend to anybody reading.
A seriously fed up Panasonic customer.
That's non-sense. It goes completely against Sale of Goods Act & EU Law. Contact Consumer Direct.
This might help you:
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
I cant see a thing wrong in those videos
Yamaha AX-397 + Yamaha NS-333;
HK 3390 + Tangent Millennium 200;
Cambridge Audio Sr10 +Cambridge audio S30
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