I was waiting for this last professional review....at last it is out..... now everything about this 'controversial ' TV would be said and done with I let you judge for yourself.....
My gut instincts about this TV have aways been unflappable despite mounting sense discord and mix views. I felt unsettled but I remained firm and put my money down before all the reviews came out.
Unflappable guts are definitely the preferable kind to have.
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
"it is that consensus that decides who win and who loses"
Why is this about "winners" and "losers" - maybe I've missed something but I though this was a discussion forum, not a competition?
Lounge: Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B (calibrated), Pioneer SC-LX75, Denon DPB-2012, Sky-HD1TB, PS4, Xbox 360, Apple-TV, Atacama Equinox AV stand, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, RXC, RX-FX, RXW-12. Kitchen: Pioneer XC-HM81, Monitor Audio Bronze BX2. Bedroom: Samsung UE37D6510, Samsung BD-C5900, Sky-HD, Pioneer N-50, Rotel RC-03 (pre-amp), Rotel RB-9708X (power-amp), Mordaunt-Short MS914
Agreed, but unless you're drinking, sense discord wouldn't be much fun.
Hardware: Panasonic TX-P50VT65B (calibrated); Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD; Yamaha RX-A810; Teac PD-H600; PS3; B&W 601 & 600LCR (series 3); Q Acoustics QAV (rear)
Furniture and Accessories: BLOK Classix 3000 Oak AV Cabinet; Atacama Nexus 6 (atabite metal filled); 3D3 A1112
I aint bashing plasmas and believe in co existence of formats. On my other post I made it clear that the Samsung F8500 I have a liking for.It is a matter of record. True I commented on the business successes or failures of the screen formats but What hi fi has done statistics on the demise of the popularity of plasmas in the previous edition.I only filled in the gaps and suggested new customers aren't buying it and reasons. What is bad about that? Or is it that plasma owners do not want to hear it?? That is not starting a hate campaign. In no way am I trying to bad mouth plasmas.I have made positive views on them...on the record.
I also made it abundantly clear that LED TV reviews lack consistency that plasma sets do not seem to suffer and obviously would be happy to see more reviews as they come along.I have quoted 5 review sites on the Sony set and clearly believe the Av forum review had a fairly extensive drill down than other sites so I can stop searching. So my conscience is crystal clear. Clearly plasma owners do not like to hear it as they already made up their mind that plasma their thing. That latent position is obvious and I aways picked it up.
It is institutionalised and you do not notice. One of guy here recommended a plasma for a diehard gaming despite concerns that it is not good for plasmas. Now is that not institutional bias. Before you think I am off my trolley say to yourself, what do you really think of LEDs.If you are neutral then plasma is not better than LED. But I think as Strap for cash said Plasma is better and so please do not expect me to be neutral too.Two can play this game.I am willing to be neutral are you?
Once more, I don't understand why you're being so confrontational. We all have our preferences, meaning none of us is "neutral," yourself included. But you're mounting a fierce defence when there was no attack.
Nobody made light of your decision to buy a Sony LED TV. Nobody questioned whether you'd bought the right television for your needs. Nobody said you should have bought a plasma TV. We're all happy that you bought a TV that you love. Who are you fighting here and why? What are you trying to achieve? What else would you like us to say?
Strap, since you put it that way and I am reasonable and have put the record straight in what I have truely said and meant we ought to leave it at that. A person's attitude comes over louder than words.Self serving lip service was prevalent very early on the thread and I did not imagine it. A Plasma fraternity exist here that got my nose...it is institutionalised. So no one will claim it exist.
Strap, no one should pay lip service to LEDs ....it is in the attitude...not in you necessarily but others here and they know who they are. They do not even know it.Panasonic did that exact thing then now they wish they didn't.
I'm glad you edited your post in the time it took me to quote and respond.
In response to your original comments, however, I have a reasonable grasp of scholarship on taste formation and subcultural (oppositional) politics. I think I could have coped with a debate about institutionalisation.
Members of this forum are generally not so dogmatic about different TV technologies. I could point you toward websites where plasma fanboyism is particularly rabid. Yes, LED televisions sell in far greater numbers than plasma TVs. But to state that LED TVs are better as a result is merely arguing that "might equals right." Most WHF forum members accept that both technologies have merits and drawbacks. It therefore becomes a question of which technology is most appropriate for individual needs.
Since this is the consensus view, I'm not sure why you've started a campaign to champion LED over plasma. The VHS/Betamax remark on the previous page has no bearing on this debate, because both plasma and LED televisions are fully compatible with the same broadcasting and home video standards. Competition isn't a factor in the way the "VHS/Betamax" comment suggests. Rather, we have choices.
Market share of Tv is not getting bigger,loses are happening and therefore the rival formats cannot exist comfortably because of tight margins.The pie just doesn't get bigger and so the eventuality will be one format will not survive. Solar panel production in China is destroying US and Europe productions, to a point it will be all be made in PRC another current example. Now PS3 and xbox an exception as the gaming fraternity can soak up more consoles and more formats.
So how can plasma survive in the context of overall TV shrinking shipment sizes, it is all economics.It is not me by default launching an Led network campaigne over plasma to rid it.
...it is happening.I just believe the quality of LEDs will quicken that pace.It is inevitable.
Nobody argued that plasma was anything other than a niche technology that a small cluster of enthusiasts enjoy.
Again, I'm struggling to understand why you're making this argument, since nobody on this forum would dispute the fact that plasma TVs sell in lower numbers and that manufacturers will stop making plasma TVs in the relatively near future. In the meantime, those of us with plasma TVs will continue to enjoy watching them.
If your point is that plasma TVs have a limited shelf life, I'd agree. I'd imagine every other plasma TV owner on this forum would agree, too. But since we know and acknowledge this, I can't understand why you're grandstanding about the popularity of LED televisions. I'm not questioning your claim that manufacturers will stop making plasma TVs sometime soon. (This isn't news to any of us.) I'm questioning why you're making this observation in such an antagonistic way.
My advice has always been this: choose your TV regardless of technology. Just buy what suits you best. I have no experience of Panasonic plasmas, but I have played PS3 games for up to 7 hours at a time on my Kuro without any problems.
Market shares are for manufacturers to worry about. I won't base my decisions on them.
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
Market share of Tv is not getting bigger,loses are happening and therefore the rival formats cannot exist comfortably because of tight margins.The pie just doesn't get bigger and so the eventuality will be one format will not survive.....So how can plasma survive in the context of overall TV shrinking shipment sizes, it is all economics.
Pioneer put all their eggs in the plasma bracket, and lost money. Panasonic have backed plasma heavily, only belatedly getting into LED, and have lost money. Sony and Sharp both ditched plasma and went exclusively down the LED route, and both are losing money on TV manufacturing.
The only TV manufacturers who seem to be making money are LG and Samsung, both of whom decided to continue investing in both technologies , so if there's an economic lesson to be learned here its that there is a distinct market for each technology and investing in both can bring crucial economies of scale for manufacturers struggling with low margins.
Wow! Never thought of it that way!
As the owner of four plasmas, but also as one who has often recommeneded the outgoing Samsung ES8000 LED series, that is very well said, Mr Malarky!
Click here to read about my system
The PC industry, is also stalling in sales having seen continous eye poping growth increases.The problem is not just a TV one.
But for that PC industry we have seen very rapid innovation in CPU and graphics, and we don't need to wait and pay for a 4k TV to upscale and see 2650 x1600 res' at 60fps for gaming .It is a reality now and I tell you on gaming on that resolution I do not want to know about any 1080p TV. It is a paltry of a resolution.
I have the largest Mac Cinema Display, at the price of a cheap panasonic 50 inch Plasma set. It is glorious in detail as you woud expect. If you have seen or own one of these, you can see that 4k TV is not all that ridiculous. The PC monitor and flatscreen TV are really joined at the hip on a parallel journey in development.
For now I rather have that Mac display resolution and ultra low dot pitch display than a 50 inch TV 1080p set for only games but not for Blur ray use. Now only with Ps4 upscaling and on 4k TV will it turn the PC over. 55inch of HR' is not to be scoffed at for games. Size matters.
Top end PC/Mac monitors can do the billion colour diaplay thing but we are still waiting for OLED to do that for us at ridiculous prices.As for Sony'sTriluminmous technology, in Tiawan a company call Chi Mei has been doing their own 'triluminous panels' - wide colour gamut 130% of the old NTSC standard before Sony and really is based the same tech and benefits. Sony does not have a patent on the 'triluminous thing' Chi Mei do not sell their TVs here.Again they can display greater range of colours than most lcd based sets providing you have the right source.
In retropect, we need to transcend this Led/Plasma merit issue, as for now both are stuck in 'purgatory', neither in low tech hell or high tech heaven...OLED will be that very distant messianic TV god.
The TV industry need to run quicker. Take the Samsung Galaxy 4 phone, it uses FULL 1080p super Amoled and very low dot pitch than any led TV outhere(446ppi) beyong retinal display - it is classed as an OLED family screen technology and already in our pocket and affordable.That black and contrast level on the phone is technically in OLED rather than LED territory. We just need it bigger. That 5 inch phone cost £500, now 50 inch Tv with the same screen technology about 5 thousand pounds?
Consumer will spent if the product is right. 3D TV was not what we ask for hence its demise.People are bored with big TV given what is has to offer.
I still accept we stil need a big TV for Bluray viewing but that is not a big enough excuse to draw the crowds in.... hence the fanancial loses as been said before.
I am therefore for 4k TV and I think it has to happen for the industry to wave its flag.I can't watch my movie on 5 inch smart phone even if it has an Oled screen
Just 2 comments:
1) There's no need for a TV to compete with a phone on screen resolution, as you view your phone from 15-30cm distance. You'll never watch TV at that distance.
2) Even if similar technology is used, it is technically difficult to make larger screens. Besides, it's cheaper to manufacture phone screens as you make a lot more of them as compared to a TV screen of a particular size.
© 2013 Haymarket Publishing