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BenLaw's picture
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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

strapped for cash wrote:

I'm not sure what a "massive" difference would mean. I think the picture would need to be transformed from pretty awful to outstanding for calibration to make that degree of difference.

The picture out of the box is very good on the VT65 and ZT65, but professional calibration will improve things notably. The best way of expressing it, as stated on other threads, is that professional calibration represents the best upgrade you can make without buying a new TV. (Since you already own what's arguably the best TV available, upgrading your television isn't possible, so that last point is hypothetical.)

Professional calibration won't elimate picture judder, though I'm not sure why you're experiencing this with 24p content. Twenty-four frames per second playback isn't perfectly smooth, though trying to iron this out through frame interpellation (your TV guessing what might appear between frames) isn't the answer.

To the best of my knowledge, your Oppo doesn't introduce undefeatable frame interpellation. Nor does it have motion processing options. You might set the Oppo to output video as "source direct." I think the Oppo has this option. That way your BDP shouldn't add any image processing that might lead to anomalies or artifacts.

In any case, engaging frame interpellation really shouldn't be necessary with 24p content. 50Hz material, especially on Panasonic plasma TVs, is another matter altogether. For UK broadcast material, setting IFC to "min" may help with some content, but you shouldn't set the IFC control any higher than this. 

Hope that's some help.

 

I'm guessing 'interpellation' may be a concept you deal with professionally, but here I think you mean 'interpolation'. 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

theflyingwasp wrote:

I'm starting to annoy myself every bloody thing I watch I fanny about with the intelligent frame creation ,not many people have the zt60 so I don't know what they use ,the picture is awesome without it but then I think it looks better with it on ,there s slight judder here and there with blu ray and DVD but when it's set to max definatly think DVD looks better also maybe  I'm a little bit paranoid but I think there is very slight screen shaking yet again is it me changing back and forth to IFC off then set to the max 

 

also I know what a good picture looks like but I've only been into home cinema a year and a half and I've went from the Panasonic gt50 to the Panasonic zt65 the picture on both sets are awesome I don't have anything to compare them too.

Wasp, out of interest what do you have 'sharpness' set at in your picture menu settings? If this is set to anything more than Zero then it can introduce judder with some TV's (as the processing engine is trying to introduce artificial sharpness into the image while also handling motion).

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

BenLaw wrote:

I'm guessing 'interpellation' may be a concept you deal with professionally, but here I think you mean 'interpolation'. 

Yes and yes. (The terms have very different meanings.) :oops:

I'm worrying increasingly about brain function, though a solid day and night's return drive from hols probably didn't help. I'm still not feeling very alert.

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

Oh sorry for some reason i thought u were in america.i think the 65 inch ZT woulda been £4500 in the uk i couldnt have stretched my budget that far .i think panasonic thought european houses were to small to justify making more of the expensive panels for europe

 

 

Here are my thx home cinema settings at the moment

Contrast 60

Brightness -10

Sharpness 0

Colour 50

Tint 0

 

I know every set is diffrent but are those anywhere near your settings on your ZT

 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

Those settings seem well off mate.

 

I would guess depending on what gamma setting you have selected - which should be 2.4 without a cal.

 

I would guess brightness to be around +3 -to + 5 not -10 brightness must be ridiculous dark and crushing / losing loads of detail

Sharpness - minus as much as it goes so not 0 - 30 or whatever it goes down to cant remember

 

 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

Thanks for that .i kinda thought the brightness was wrong.im using oblivion as an example because i watched it last night and its fresh im ny head.it looked awesone to me but.what i think is a good picture and WHAT is a good picture must be 2 diffrent things.i had the sharpness at -50 since i got the ZT back in june.but a reviewer said the sharpness should always be at 0 with the panasonics .only been into home cinema for about a year and a half all ive ever owned is the panny gt50 and now the zt60 so any info or thoughts u guys have is welcomed.or until i get the bloody thing calibrated. :wall:

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

theflyingwasp wrote:

Oh sorry for some reason i thought u were in america.i think the 65 inch ZT woulda been £4500 in the uk i couldnt have stretched my budget that far .i think panasonic thought european houses were to small to justify making more of the expensive panels for europe

 

 

Here are my thx home cinema settings at the moment

Contrast 60

Brightness -10

Sharpness 0

Colour 50

Tint 0

 

I know every set is diffrent but are those anywhere near your settings on your ZT

 

Just had a quick look at the settings info steve sent me after he calibrated the set, and the basic settings are as follows:

Contrast = 70

Brightness = 0

Sharpness = 0

Colour = 50

Tint = 0

Colour Temp  = Warm (needed because apparently most TV's out the box are tilted towards Blue in favour of Red, as Blue makes whites look whiter in the showroom, and this became blindingly apparent when Steve showed me the 'before' and 'after' results, which I'll post when I'm back home this weekend).

vivid colour = Off

The rest of the stuff is in the 'Advanced Settings' menu, which to be honest aren't worth posting as no two panels are the same, so the finer detail needs to be set by a trained calibrator. When I post the reports over the weekend though you'd be amazed how far out some of the colour aettings were 'out the box', so well worth getting this done when you've invested so much in the TV. 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

Just checked 0 is as far off as it goes

Missing key details - gamma and what gamma the set is calibrated to. Brightness to 0 must be because the set comes out of black different to the vt. The vt is supposed to come out of black quicker so I would expect brightness to be set lower than the ZT? Also colour temp is semi irrelevant after calibration. I found normal to give better starting results than warm, it does push blue, but warm pushes red so either way you have to change it

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

ellisdj wrote:

Just checked 0 is as far off as it goes

Missing key details - gamma and what gamma the set is calibrated to. Brightness to 0 must be because the set comes out of black different to the vt. The vt is supposed to come out of black quicker so I would expect brightness to be set lower than the ZT? Also colour temp is semi irrelevant after calibration. I found normal to give better starting results than warm, it does push blue, but warm pushes red so either way you have to change it

Gamma's set at 2.2. Will post the full before & after charts when I get home. 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

Why Not 2.4 - Its much much much better - I should be the calibrator, people should hire me in

Meridian 861 V4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST - GIK Acoustics

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

 

 

Can't figure out how to copy and paste the full PDF report on the iPhone (any ideas anyone?), but the below (if they post ok) are the colour results that were included as an image in steve's follow up email.

 

 

 

 

 

You can see what I mean about blue being pushed massively out the box at the expense of red (I'd played around with some of the settings, but hasn't gone into the advanced colour settings so none of the first graph was due to excessive tweaking on my part I don't think).

Cant answer the 2.2 vs 2.4 question, wont pretend to debate stuff I'm not qualified to comment on, but steve's on Av forum and seems pretty open to sharing his thoughts so drop him a line?

Be interested in your feedback when I get chance to post the full reports. 

Gel (if your reading this), the above is what I was referring to when I talked about 10 point adjustment to get both primary and secondary colour space correct.

 

 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

mr malarky wrote:

 

 

Can't figure out how to copy and paste the full PDF report on the iPhone (any ideas anyone?), but the below (if they post ok) are the colour results that were included as an image in steve's follow up email.

 

 

 

 

 

You can see what I mean about blue being pushed massively out the box at the expense of red (I'd played around with some of the settings, but hasn't gone into the advanced colour settings so none of the first graph was due to excessive tweaking on my part I don't think).

Cant answer the 2.2 vs 2.4 question, wont pretend to debate stuff I'm not qualified to comment on, but steve's on Av forum and seems pretty open to sharing his thoughts so drop him a line?

Be interested in your feedback when I get chance to post the full reports. 

Gel (if your reading this), the above is what I was referring to when I talked about 10 point adjustment to get both primary and secondary colour space correct.

 

 

 

I don't know how you can do it on a iPhone too.  If you do manage it I will check it out though.   Smile

Home cinema system: LG 55EA980W OLED TV,  Pioneer Bdp-lx71, Pioneer Vsx-lx70, B&W FPM Series, B&W PV1.

Gadgets: iPad 2 and iPhone 4s. Dab radio: Roberts Dreamtime.

 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

Right, that didn't work (at least dont think it did?), will have to wait, sorry gents. 

 

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332660/gamma-2-2-vs-2-4

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RE: 24p smooth film yes or no?

bigboss wrote:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332660/gamma-2-2-vs-2-4

A professionally calibrated TV typically has a 2.2 day mode and a 2.4 night mode.

The 2.2 setting affords a brighter picture, less likely to wash out in a bright room, while the 2.4 night mode is best suited to a blacked out room. Each is designed to optimise black level, contrast, and shadow detail under specific lighting conditions.

It isn't really a question of better or worse, but about accounting for changeable environmental factors.

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