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100hz unnatural movement
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Hello everybody, I need some help from you video gurus.

First: I'm a professional photographer and a cinema lover, not a techie or tv expert, so please excuse my use of inappropriate words (plus my english language is so, so at its best...).

The kind of picture that mostly please my eyes in viewing movies is, these days, the plasma picture over the lcd one. I find it more natural or cine-natural, while the lcd picture is surely sharper (very good to see digital photos on it), but a little too "digital" for me. Just my opinion.

So that last year I bought a panny 42px70 (also following precious WhatHiFi suggestions), and I love it. (... I also think that an HD ready panel shows better SD picture than a full HD, but that's another topic...).

Now these days I'm watching lots of LCD panels in stores (I have to buy another TV for another house) that "promote" their 100hz ability. I repeat I'm not a techie but I read everywhere that a 100hz panel should be better in motion sequences, quick cam movement etc. (a problem that sometimes afflicts lcd panel).

Now, maybe my eyes are "wrong", but wat I saw when I look at most of those pannels is a motion that is in some way unnatural. It's surely more "quick", maybe a little bit faster than natural... or probably "too natural" and less cinema style. Sometimes It looks to my eyes like I'm watching a home made video. I dont' know If I succedeed in expalining what I see.

So here are my questions for you:

Angel Am I completely crazy (or somehow blind) or what I said has some kind of sense?

(b) It's only about lcd 100hz panel or about any (even plasma) 100hz panel?

(c) question b is very important for me because planning to buy another 42 panny I'm scared that the new px80 is a 100hz panel and that it should produce that "strange" effect ... (maybe better to buy an "old" px70?)

Thanks a lot in advance

lm.

 

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

The 100Hz feature on the PX80 is not the same as the 100Hz feature on LCD's, so you will not see the 'strange effect' you are referring to.

ElectroMan's picture
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

From readings lots of articles and reviews, it seems that 100hz scanning on LCD can produce more problems than it solves!

Some sets do it well (e.g. Sony) but others produce unnatural movement or effects (e.g. Sharp). 

Clare Newsome's picture
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

You are not alone - some 100hz processing can make me feel almost ill in faster scenes, and one of our reviewers is even more sensitive (just the other day we were speculating that, when we saw it, a certain set 'may make him hurl'!

Others don't have a problem with it at all. This is another benefit of us testing as a team, as while one set may seem fine to one reviewer, another may soon encounter motion issues.

It's the same with testing projectors - some notice the DLP 'rainbow' effect more than others; some clock an LCD's lattice while others are immune.

We'll always report any models we feel are particular 'offenders', but it's another reason we really urge people to try before you buy.

 

Group Marketing & PR Manager, Computers Unlimited.

Brands represented include Astell&Kern, Audioengine, B&O Play, Canton, Flexson for SONOS and SONOS

TWITTER: @ClareNewsome

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement
alsina:

The 100Hz feature on the PX80 is not the same as the 100Hz feature on LCD's, so you will not see the 'strange effect' you are referring to.



yeah you do! ive noticed it on lots of tv's lcd and plasma's im not a fan of motion flow or panasonics frame creation they make the picture look like documentary footage

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

The PX80 has 100Hz which is not the same as Intelligent Frame Creation. This is only available on certain PZ models.

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

yes but i think the op was sayin that features like motion flow/frame creation/100hz scaning can make some a tv's picture look well weird for want of a better word! Ive got a panny 85pz and frame creation is a no no for me as is sonys motion flow! cant get on with either! some people love it but hey were all differnt

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

He is worried about buying a PX80 because it has 100Hz. What he is thinking is that it will give the same strange look that MotionFlow and Intelligent Frame Creation can cause to the picture, as both technologies are adding artificially created images in between the real images.


The 100Hz feature on the PX80 does not create any new artificial images, it merely shows each real image twice to avoid flicker on the screen. This is the same affect you will get on your PZ85 with Intelligent Frame Creation switched 'off'.


Hope you see what I'm getting at. The OP is worried about the picture on the PX80 caused by a feature that it doesn't even have, He is (rightly so) getting confused with the different terminology used on different screens.

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

yeah i see where your coming from and wouldnt argue! i was just agreeing with the op that some image enhancers do anything but!

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

Ok, thanks to all of you guys (and ladies).

I happy to read that a guru (not joking) like Ms Newsome "feel" it too.

But since I don't understand your techie language (frame adding technologies or the different "motion flow" artifact ?) I still have the same decision problem Smile

Angel Does the px80 create (with any kind of technology, with any name) that effect? or it manages motion the same way as my trusty px70 ?

(b) in the case the PX80 mangage movement like my old Px70 (differently I have no choiche since I can't really watch that "home made" or documentary feeling in movie) what about Picture Quality? (a little bit off topic, but this way I'll solve my problems). I even read somewhere (but I trust YOUR opinion) that even if it has no 24p etc. etc., just talking about "pure" PQ the PX70 is still a little better then the new PX80 ... ?

Thanks again.

lm

 

Anonymous
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Re: 100hz unnatural movement

If you already have the 42PX70 then I would say, stay with it for now. The PX80 is incrementally better than the PX70 but not by lots. It has higher contrast and better colours. 100hz wont affect your enjoyment one bit, it's there to keep down the flicker that some people see with plasma.


But unless you have a problem with your PX70 that your trying to solve, I would stay with it and check out the 2009 models for further improvements. 

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