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gillieboy67's picture
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rega rp3 cartridge upgrade
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hi all,am looking to replace my elys cartridge,looking for suggestions on a good upgrade,my budget is £ 300,thanks

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

Dynavector 10x5 or Nagaoka MP200

The dynavector is slighlty more forward, so depends on what presentation you want.

I have owned both on the RB303 arm and IMO are the best carts £300-350

 

Michell Gyrodec, RB303, Benz Micro Ace H, Icon Audio ST40 w/KT88s, PS1 Phono, Kudos X2, Rega Apollo R, DAC

 

 

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

As stevebrock says I would recommend the Nagaoka. Have not heard the 10x5 as am not convinced by hi-output moving coils in general.

Failing that you might look at the new Ortofon Quintet Blue.

All should give better SQ than the Elys. Smile

 

Motto: Never pay full price for anything, there is always room to haggle!

Tom Evans Audio Design amplification / Acoustic Zen speakers.

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

gillieboy67 wrote:

hi all,am looking to replace my elys cartridge,looking for suggestions on a good upgrade,my budget is £ 300,thanks

This should give your music a kick up the backside.

Altenatively, as suggested by Al, Ortofon is another good option, as is Goldring.

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

As is Nagaoka as is Audio-Technica as is Grado...

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

With the Nagaoka, are spacers required on a RB303 tonearm??

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

Any non Rega will require a spacer, however not really sure if you really do need one, it may alter the presentation slightly if you dont use one 

 

Michell Gyrodec, RB303, Benz Micro Ace H, Icon Audio ST40 w/KT88s, PS1 Phono, Kudos X2, Rega Apollo R, DAC

 

 

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

I would tend to disagree with the need for spacers. Unless the Nagaoka is a lot deeper (measured) than the Elys, and I don't think it is then the VTA is not going to be affected. Even if it is then whether or not you would hear any difference is debateable.

 

Motto: Never pay full price for anything, there is always room to haggle!

Tom Evans Audio Design amplification / Acoustic Zen speakers.

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

Al ears wrote:

I would tend to disagree with the need for spacers. Unless the Nagaoka is a lot deeper (measured) than the Elys, and I don't think it is then the VTA is not going to be affected. Even if it is then whether or not you would hear any difference is debateable.

 

Did you try this?

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

Al ears wrote:

I would tend to disagree with the need for spacers. Unless the Nagaoka is a lot deeper (measured) than the Elys, and I don't think it is then the VTA is not going to be affected. Even if it is then whether or not you would hear any difference is debateable.

 

Thanks for that. I have a Grado Silver on my RP3, no spacers. All sounds great.

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

Spacers/VTA are important on any TT/arm.  VTA affects the sound and presentation of your music. However it depends on the quality of the cartridge/stylus and system over all how much you will notice the changes as you shim up or down.

VTA has a distinct affect on high and low frequencies, of course a cartridge will play without adjustment, but it may not be working at its optimum?

The same applies to tracking weight coupled with VTA, but that a whole new can of worms . . . ?

CJSF

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

nima wrote:

Al ears wrote:

I would tend to disagree with the need for spacers. Unless the Nagaoka is a lot deeper (measured) than the Elys, and I don't think it is then the VTA is not going to be affected. Even if it is then whether or not you would hear any difference is debateable.

 

Did you try this?

Try what? Check the diffierence in VTA between the Elys and the Nagaoka? No, as I do not own these cartridges.

My response was to critical mass's  question so this is something he will have to check for himself.

As a general respose to VTA in general (I know CJSF has other ideas) here I quote Roy Gandy who makes Rega turntables:-

RG: Basically, knowing what we do about tolerances for stylus positioning within cartridge cantilevers, we do not really accept that the concept of VTA adjustment is valid or beneficial. Consider this: to the best of our knowledge, even the best cartridge makers are only able to achieve stylus positioning accurate to within about a 2 degree tolerance window—but not better than that. Now ask yourself why it is desirable to trim stylus positioning by fractions of a degree, when the stylus’ starting position might fall (and in practice does fall) literally anywhere within a two-degree window. We aren’t saying you won’t hear sonic changes when you attempt VTA adjustments, but we think those changes could just as well be due to minute changes in tracking force, or even to the tightness of set screws, etc. used in VTA adjustment mechanisms. This same line of thought, by the way, is also why we do.

I have indeed played with the VTA on my own setup and, unless you have the rear arm height way out, then SQ is affected only very slightly.

This does not mean you should not experiment with this. There are no hard and fast rules (and very few absolute facts) in hifi. Smile

 

Motto: Never pay full price for anything, there is always room to haggle!

Tom Evans Audio Design amplification / Acoustic Zen speakers.

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

Al ears wrote:

nima wrote:

Al ears wrote:

I would tend to disagree with the need for spacers. Unless the Nagaoka is a lot deeper (measured) than the Elys, and I don't think it is then the VTA is not going to be affected. Even if it is then whether or not you would hear any difference is debateable.

 

Did you try this?

Try what? Check the diffierence in VTA between the Elys and the Nagaoka? No, as I do not own these cartridges.

My response was to critical mass's  question so this is something he will have to check for himself.

As a general respose to VTA in general (I know CJSF has other ideas) here I quote Roy Gandy who makes Rega turntables:-

RG: . . . We aren’t saying you won’t hear sonic changes when you attempt VTA adjustments, but we think those changes could just as well be due to minute changes in tracking force, or even to the tightness of set screws, etc. used in VTA adjustment mechanisms. This same line of thought, by the way, is also why we do.

I have indeed played with the VTA on my own setup and, unless you have the rear arm height way out, then SQ is affected only very slightly.

This does not mean you should not experiment with this. There are no hard and fast rules (and very few absolute facts) in hifi. Smile

In total agreement, 'VTA adjustment can be heard'  says Roy Gandy and dont forget he is only making a sugestion as to the reasons for the sound change heard?  Therefor it could be, VTA adjustment is actualy also something to do with the stylus angle? . . . sound changes can be heard, so VTA adjustment is desirable . . . as also agreed by  Al ears, he adjusts VTA.  Tis true the changes can be small, so, the better the hifi the easier it is to hear what is going on.

If I am paying £300 for something, I want it to work at its best, not in a compromised way that may be as good a similar product costing considerably less because I cant be bothered to take time to adjust it.  The potential improvement is why we 'upgrade' is it not?   Fifty or one hundred quid for a cartridge, forget VTA, take the Rega line, just enjoy it, three hundred smakers, that is serious cash, I would want a smooth quality sound, with no nasties at the top end.

To me, VTA is like focusing a camera, a picture is no good if it aint sharp . . . and dont forget the more the lens costs the better the sharper and more dynaic the picture can be, its all about adjustment . . . 'that will do, will not do' . . .  :read:

CJSF

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

CJSF wrote:

To me, VTA is like focusing a camera, a picture is no good if it aint sharp . . . ...

Hmm not sure about that as a set-in-stone rule.

Look up the Cooke PS945 lens and find some examples of the wonderful effect it's softness can have on photographs and the reasons why some very serious photographers love it.

CJSF wrote:

...and dont forget the more the lens costs the better the sharper and more dynaic the picture can be ...

Generally speaking the 50mm f1,7 or f1,8  'standard' prime lens is one of the cheapest in a manufacturer's range and usually the sharpest. 

Sorry to go off-topic folks.

As you were.

 

 

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

I can tell the difference with minute adjustments of VTF, I have the Michell VTA adjuster for my RB303 - I can tell the difference between arse up and arse down - however this is more down to the transparency of my amp.

If you want ro start really tweaking a TT then with a Valve really is needed as you can hear every adjustment here is absolutely no coloration from a PCB of a SS amp.

 

Michell Gyrodec, RB303, Benz Micro Ace H, Icon Audio ST40 w/KT88s, PS1 Phono, Kudos X2, Rega Apollo R, DAC

 

 

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RE: rega rp3 cartridge upgrade

chebby wrote:

CJSF wrote:

To me, VTA is like focusing a camera, a picture is no good if it aint sharp . . . and dont forget the more the lens costs the better the sharper and more dynaic the picture can be ...

Hmm not sure about that as a set-in-stone rule.

Look up the Cooke PS945 lens and find some examples of the wonderful effect it's softness can have on photographs and the reasons why some very serious photographers love it.

Sorry to go off-topic folks.

As you were.

There are dozens of ways to take blury pics with sharp lens, and you can always muffle your ears, speakers or deck if that suits you. The other way around is not so easy. Unsharp lens really annoy me.

 

Back to topic:

with TT really minute changes can bring sound from OK to fabulous, sometimes I'm not even sure, what was it, that I did, that made some very significant change - I used the same procedures...

Sometimes I wonder, how many of the differences people attribute to cartridges being better are really just better luck with setup. And vice versa - were the carts that are supposed to suck actually never setup properly?

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