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Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

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CJSF
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Yes it time to reflect . . . and look on to the next hifi adventure which will almost certainly be to do with the TT . . . thats where everything starts, 'rubbish in rubbish out' so Linn used to tell us puzzled

Reflecting . . . goes back to 1964, when I met my beloved Kathy on Holiday, 4 years later we were married, her family were heavily into the hifi of the day, from radio-grams to Thorens, Quad and SME, I got drawn in . . . 1975 I started my early experiments with speaker stands, 1985 best product award. 1995 the light in my life was extinguished. From then until early this year things were a blur, running on auto pilot. I am grateful to those around me for their support.

Things are different now, in 9 months I regained my life, new Doc., now no medication required and re discovering hifi. Hifi has been an anchor, something I new, but needed to dig out from the back of my mind, all this from finding a stash of my old vinyl LP's and CD's in the loft, along with speaker and an old amp . . . strange how life tunes on its head?

Turned on its head? my turntable story certainly has don that, turned over many times! Even in the past few days, I thought it was right, but extensive listening has proved I had it not as right as I thought.

The Rega TT/PSU was supposed to be the bees knees . . . developed a buzz, a replacement improved things, but not perfect, the buzz was still there although quieter. As one listened deeper, I found I had swapped air around the image for a fuzzy base. In much of my music, base underpins my musical listening experience, so this fuzzy base was unacceptable.

Reverting the P5 back to its original on-board power supply, returned the statues quo, it appears the Rega white belt upgrade does a top job, similar to the remote power supply as far as I can hear, its close?

Then, Saturday, a little bit of the old tweaker emerged, I have damped the P5 sub platter, but removed 2 of the 12 sections, sort of broken bell effect? The full 12 sections was dark and heavy to my ear, the removed sections lighten things, a little to much but I preferred it. I had asked Stuart at SRM to send me some thinner offcuts of the damping material. These arrived Saturday morning, I cut some new sections from two different thicknesses.

I was amazed by the affects of the addition of the two thin segments, heavy, bloated, overblown base and generaly smeared midrange!!! Very disappointing, what on earth will the middle gauge material sound like . . . perfect!!! anything I had lost by removal of the TT/PSU was back, with knobs on. Why I should be surprised I dont know, these were the sort of anomalies I found back in the 70's experimenting with mass loading stand. I am effectively mass loading the TT sup platter.

So my TT tweaking has actually cost me around £200 with the refund on the power supply, I have a sound that 'I like' . . . so where to from hear?????

Why go any further . . . missing one thing, comparing my 20 year memory to now . . . Image, its fairly good in width, but a little more height perhaps, more depth definitely.

Pointing to a better cartridge than the M2 Blue? . . . 2m Black or a Grado Reference Master 1, really pushing the boat out with the Grado but its write up's, the voicing is so me? I've found a dealer who is willing to supply both for me to listen in my own system, thats a first for me. He's even willing to let me try a 'Decca Gold' . . . O'boy, I used to have one with a 'Garret re tip'. Dynamics or what, but not suitable for the P5/700 I feel, I want to retain my sanity! party time!

Any 'constructive' views on cartridge options?

CJSF

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Rega P5/PB700 (upgraded main bearing, white drive belt), Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature cartridge, Carver MCt, Croft Integrated Valve hybrid amp, PMC LB1's on Foundation Designer Stands, Rega Apollo CDp. Cables: speaker, Linn K20, Interconnect, Foundation Audio Special.

altruistic.lemon
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

Stick to what you've got. Next time you feel an upgrade coming on, take two glasses of red wine and have an early night!

chebby
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

CJSF wrote:
. . . missing one thing, comparing my 20 year memory to now . . . Image, its fairly good in width, but a little more height perhaps, more depth definitely...

As far as possible, have the distance between your speakers roughly equal to the distance from you to either one of them. (An equilateral triangle.)

Toe in your speakers/stands until an imaginary straight line through each of their axis would cross at a point about two feet behind your head when you are seated.

Use simply recorded, live (not studio) vocal/acoustic instrument recordings to make things easier when doing this.

Make small incremental adjustments until you have maximised the imaging and only then start spending money on upgrades.

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CJSF
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

chebby wrote:

CJSF wrote:
. . . missing one thing, comparing my 20 year memory to now . . . Image, its fairly good in width, but a little more height perhaps, more depth definitely...

As far as possible, have the distance between your speakers roughly equal to the distance from you to either one of them. (An equilateral triangle.)

Toe in your speakers/stands until an imaginary straight line through each of their axis would cross at a point about two feet behind your head when you are seated.

Use simply recorded, live (not studio) vocal/acoustic instrument recordings to make things easier when doing this.

Make small incremental adjustments until you have maximised the imaging and only then start spending money on upgrades.

 

Chebby and Altruistic. lemon . . . you have sensed I'm going into 'overload', thank-you . . . I'm trying to cramming so much into a few days . . . so far so good, but . . . now it is time to sit back and and relax, I'll try the speaker move, can't change the distances?. 

Had a full afternoon session with Vinyl, 12 until now nearly 6pm, and on going.  Loved every minute, some of it with Hazel, she really does have the 'most tuned in ears', some on my own and some at my desk . . . speakers each side, big headphones!

As suggested . . . time out . . . enjoy the music, currently listening to Chris Rea's 'Auberge', in its vinyl incarnation, compared with the CD version listened to late last night . . . it simply draws with its musicality . . . CJSF

 

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Rega P5/PB700 (upgraded main bearing, white drive belt), Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature cartridge, Carver MCt, Croft Integrated Valve hybrid amp, PMC LB1's on Foundation Designer Stands, Rega Apollo CDp. Cables: speaker, Linn K20, Interconnect, Foundation Audio Special.

CJSF
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

Ok Chebby, I quickly relaigned the speakers, left Chris Rea playing . . . better, need a bit more listening but it has put the cherry on the cake . . . ?

Best of all, said nothing to Hazel, she came in from the kitchen, I sat her down, still Chris Rea, "listen and tell me what you hear" says I . . .

. . . "Image is a couple of feet higher, separated and better space front to back" . . . give the lady 1st prize, she knows nothing of hifi, her ears need insuring, what perception woohoo!

I'm just frustrated I cant get it, yes I can hear it . . . but I should be able to remember, I dont, . . . still on the learning curve.  I can hear and know how to correct most things, the imaging I am/was at a loss . . . although cut and try usualy works, in this case it did not enter my head banging head against wall  I'm at the computer now, its even improved the perception of the performance openness her . . . I suppose its another bit of my missing 'jigsaw of life' been put into place, a very satisfying listening experiance. 

thank you, CJSF

 

 

 

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Rega P5/PB700 (upgraded main bearing, white drive belt), Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature cartridge, Carver MCt, Croft Integrated Valve hybrid amp, PMC LB1's on Foundation Designer Stands, Rega Apollo CDp. Cables: speaker, Linn K20, Interconnect, Foundation Audio Special.

chebby
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

No problem CJ.

It all came from your speaker manufacturer's own instructions/suggestions for positioning...

http://www.pmc-speakers.com/downloads/pmc.i_series_user%20guide.5361.8.pdf

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CJSF
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

chebby wrote:

No problem CJ.

It all came from your speaker manufacturer's own instructions/suggestions for positioning...

http://www.pmc-speakers.com/downloads/pmc.i_series_user%20guide.5361.8.pdf

 

There you go Chebby, I have made some extra tiny adjustments which seems to 'focus the image'? as suggested in the PMC's instructions.  I would still like a little more back to front, greedy ain't I! . . . but, since Saturday morning to now, we have come on a whole level of 'true improvement' . . . I got 'Cantate Domino' out; church organ and choir, image is much better, the sub-platter damping has put the voicing in a different league which the improved image is showing up.  Plus I have a Dave Wilson Audio, Organ concert, with organ pipes that go to 32hz . . . thats also a new experience of pipe placement and voicing!

Later tonight I will get out Miserere, see how that fares, potentially, has an amazing image capacity, especially height and depth?

OK, overload averted, thanks again.  What now goes through my mind fertile mind, how much better will a better cartridge be?? ie a 2M Black, that super shibata diamond has to amount to something, just how good is it?  Answer, go to my friendly dealer who has a Black against a Blue on dem, take 'Cantate' along and see, better no problem, different or even worse? (they even do Croft amps and PMC speakers) and offer the return option if its not right in the system, they dont do Rega . . . walk away . . .

. . . no problems, relaxed . . . CJSF

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Rega P5/PB700 (upgraded main bearing, white drive belt), Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature cartridge, Carver MCt, Croft Integrated Valve hybrid amp, PMC LB1's on Foundation Designer Stands, Rega Apollo CDp. Cables: speaker, Linn K20, Interconnect, Foundation Audio Special.

CJSF
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RE: Reflection, 'rubbish in, rubbish out'. . .

Well I did get out Miserere last night at Horlicks time, first time its had an airing for a couple of weeks, so a tweak or two has taken place in between time . . . detail and information was there I did not know existed, the image has improved to a point where the back garden is part of the sound stage, we listened to the whole of side one, never normally, its usually just track 1, but 'Mundy Vox Patris Caelestis', which is the rest of side one was as beguiling and essential as 'Miserere'.

Having now slept on the events of the weekend . . . where I though I was, where I am now is like 'chalk and cheese', personally and in musical hifi terms . . . up to Friday night, changes always resulted in 'subtle' . . . Then Saturday morning, I made the improvements on the sub-platter damping, very good, but still not satisfied.  Sunday, the tiny change to speaker position suggested by Chebby, and every thing clicked into focus!

I must stop digging back 20 years, my memory is obviously coloured.  However, I have nothing current to compare to, so one can only work on the progression of a few months and trust ones ears.

Last night we listened to organ, choir and Tallis Scholars, recorded in the wonderful acoustic of Merton Collage chapel, Oxford.  The evening has made the biggest impact on me, and I think, Hazel, since I first dropped the stylus on the P5. Last night was a revelation, like throwing a switch in the mind, 'this is music' at its best.

I talked of overload . . . more like going around in circles, not knowing where to stop . . . ?  Certainly it is time to rest on the solid base of an almost tangible quality of music I dont remember ever hearing?

 . . . trust ones ears; listen to what people are telling you  . . . CJSF

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Rega P5/PB700 (upgraded main bearing, white drive belt), Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature cartridge, Carver MCt, Croft Integrated Valve hybrid amp, PMC LB1's on Foundation Designer Stands, Rega Apollo CDp. Cables: speaker, Linn K20, Interconnect, Foundation Audio Special.