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Critical VTA . . . !!!
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A subject visited on more than one occasion . . . it generally ended up as a bland option. Personally one has always been in the 'important adjustment' camp.

Having made an upgrade on my P5 TT with the use of an acrylic platter mat, presenting a thickness issue? Standard felt mat is nominally 2mm thick, the acrylic mat is 3mm. You will have read how pleased I am with the improvements; 'old cynic that I am'.

The extra 1mm thickness bugged me . . . as such things do? . . . So I decided to try raising the arm by 0.5mm. Replacing the 1mm shim with one of 1.5mm.

. . . what a disappointment, the sound became boxy, lifeless and generally ordinary . . .

As the title of the thread suggests . . . VTA is critical, the difference is like night and day!

CJSF

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

CJSF wrote:
A subject visited on more than one occasion . . . it generally ended up as a bland option. Personally one has always been in the 'important adjustment' camp. Having made an upgrade on my P5 TT with the use of an acrylic platter mat, presenting a thickness issue? Standard felt mat is nominally 2mm thick, the acrylic mat is 3mm. You will have read how pleased I am with the improvements; 'old cynic that I am'. The extra 1mm thickness bugged me . . . as such things do? . . . So I decided to try raising the arm by 0.5mm. Replacing the 1mm shim with one of 1.5mm. . . . what a disappointment, the sound became boxy, lifeless and generally ordinary . . . As the title of the thread suggests . . . VTA is critical, the difference is like night and day! CJSF

So you have vinyl records that are 3 different thicknesses and are you going to make an adjustment every time you play something. Dirol

Michell Orbe SE. Origin Live Illustrious 2/3. Transfiguration Axia S. Roksan amps. Dali Epicon 3 speakers.

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

Lost Angeles wrote:
So you have vinyl records that are 3 different thicknesses and are you going to make an adjustment every time you play something. Dirol

I sense an impending missive on the subject of laziness and 'fit and forget mentality'  Smile

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

chebby wrote:

Lost Angeles wrote:
So you have vinyl records that are 3 different thicknesses and are you going to make an adjustment every time you play something. Dirol

I sense an impending missive on the subject of laziness and 'fit and forget mentality'  Smile

 

No way Chebby, I know what I hear and how to deal with it . . . from now on, thats as far as I go! 

CJSF

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

Lost Angeles wrote:

CJSF wrote:
A subject visited on more than one occasion . . . it generally ended up as a bland option. Personally one has always been in the 'important adjustment' camp. Having made an upgrade on my P5 TT with the use of an acrylic platter mat, presenting a thickness issue? Standard felt mat is nominally 2mm thick, the acrylic mat is 3mm. You will have read how pleased I am with the improvements; 'old cynic that I am'. The extra 1mm thickness bugged me . . . as such things do? . . . So I decided to try raising the arm by 0.5mm. Replacing the 1mm shim with one of 1.5mm. . . . what a disappointment, the sound became boxy, lifeless and generally ordinary . . . As the title of the thread suggests . . . VTA is critical, the difference is like night and day! CJSF

So you have vinyl records that are 3 different thicknesses and are you going to make an adjustment every time you play something. Dirol

? . . . nope, seem to have hit the sweet spot, if this evenings 3 hour Horlicks session is anything to go by . . . Dirol

CJSF

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

I think you neef an arm (or arm mount) that will enable VTA to be 'dialled in'.

As ' Lost' correctly implies, LP thickness can differ by at least 0.5mm (especially those audiophile jobs) so that 'sweet spot' will be all over the place.

Either that or have a couple of mats (thin for thick LPs and vice versa).

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

 

The extra 1mm thickness bugged me . . . as such things do? . . . So I decided to try raising the arm by 0.5mm. Replacing the 1mm shim with one of 1.5mm.

. . . what a disappointment, the sound became boxy, lifeless and generally ordinary . .

 

Do you not think that it could be your reinstallation that could be at fault maybe......

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

chebby wrote:

I think you neef an arm (or arm mount) that will enable VTA to be 'dialled in'.

As ' Lost' correctly implies, LP thickness can differ by at least 0.5mm (especially those audiophile jobs) so that 'sweet spot' will be all over the place.

Either that or have a couple of mats (thin for thick LPs and vice versa).

Tried various thickness, there is a minor change in sound on the thickest , but the general presentation is maintained, so as I say, the 'sweet spot' has a small latitude. As most of the records I listened to yesterday, over two 3 hour sessions were OK and I consider them to be a fair representation of my collection, I'm happy. Record thickness/VTA is an on-going problem whatever the vinyl setup might be . . . ?

CJSF

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

Sospri wrote:

 Do you not think that it could be your reinstallation that could be at fault maybe......

 

No chance, my dog could do it with one paw tied behind his back and blindfold . . . :? A figure of speech before someone twists what I say, accuses me of animal cruelty and reports me to the RSPCA:bounce:

Woof! . . . woof! . . .CJSF

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

I dunno about that coat he's wearing !!!!

Does his street cred no good at all Laughing

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

Hi,

I find CJSF's comments really interesting. I often read articles saying that there is a sweet spot where everything  comes into focus.

On my deck I use the Michell VTA adjuster and a while back I decided to see if I could find this 'sweet spot' I put three dots on the adjuster using a felt tip pen and went through the complete range of adjustment in 3rd of a turn increments from low to high.

I have to say I never heard a difference at any point! To me it sounded exactly the same regardless of the arm height. I tried different records of varying thickness, still nothing.  Now it may be that this is unique to my deck but after spending some hours on it getting nowhere, I decided that Roy Gandy was right and set the arm more or less horizontal and have left it like that ever since.

That's my experience anyway.

Cheers

Steve

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

Sospri wrote:

I dunno about that coat he's wearing !!!!

Does his street cred no good at all Laughing

It's technically known as a Grill...ie. Covers the Woofer. :shifty:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Critical VTA . . . !!!

stevieg330 wrote:

Hi,

I find CJSF's comments really interesting. I often read articles saying that there is a sweet spot where everything  comes into focus.

On my deck I use the Michell VTA adjuster and a while back I decided to see if I could find this 'sweet spot' I put three dots on the adjuster using a felt tip pen and went through the complete range of adjustment in 3rd of a turn increments from low to high.

I have to say I never heard a difference at any point! To me it sounded exactly the same regardless of the arm height. I tried different records of varying thickness, still nothing.  Now it may be that this is unique to my deck but after spending some hours on it getting nowhere, I decided that Roy Gandy was right and set the arm more or less horizontal and have left it like that ever since.

That's my experience anyway.

Cheers

Steve

:? . . . There are a few factors at play, one is using a low slung counter weight, this moves the centre of gravity closer in line with the stylus, better controlling the arm movement in relation to the stylus in the grove. Now you can reduce the down force on the stylus, tiny, tiny amounts, its done by ear, then the VTA changes will (might) be audible? Its a round and round process, takes time patience and practice. This is my method that suits my system.

CJSF

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