Covering up the holes . . . ?
All this needle time, I'm getting to understand where I'm going? Originally I wanted 'pipe and slipper sound' from my system. The Ortofon is not P&S . . . however, a few tweaks moved the sound on to an acceptable level, by my standards. A few more tweaks showed me where I dont want I go
I got hold of an 'ISOweight' this morning, you know the sort of thing, a low hanging counter weight arrangement. Nothing lost, give it a try . . . after all, the **** postie got me out of bed to singe for it! Interesting, but I have thoughts on tidying the garden today, so it had to wait until later this afternoon.
I have seen all sorts of claims for these under slung weights, mine comes from a source that gives a 14 day money back G't if I dont like it for any reason, cant loose. The main claim to fame on these weights is the ability for the cartridge to track more accurately, as the center of gravity is closer to being in line with the stylus? yeah, ok . . . sceptics hat firmly in place!
Does it work, initial findings, yes, sort of? I was also trying the 'purist' arm blancing option suggested by Chebby. Not happy, back to basics and Regas balance method. So back to the ISOweight, better on simple music, like Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat, but complicated recordings were messy, for instance choir and organ in a church.
??? think, the ISOweight is supposed to help the cartridge track . . . 2gs? the demanding choir music sounded 'sat on and muddy' . . . reduce the tracking weight, once then twice, thats it, as close as I can tell, 1.8gs.
The ISOweight does work, but fathoming it, you are on your own, no instructions, zilch! Get the tracking weight right and the midrange opens like a flower, Jennifer Warnes has a slight vibrato to her voice, and inner mouth sounds can be heard quite clearly, there is a deeper and more informative sound stage. Base is tighter, dynamic, with a tactile feel to it, top end is sharper, rather more like an 2M Blue should sound may be, on the edge?
Dont get me wrong, the changes are subtle, not mind blowing, but they are there, small parts again, adding to 'the whole'. The 'pipe and slippers' is not gone, its been added to, so I cant criticise, I now know how much more is there, so, going back to P&S is not an option.
Where to now . . . ? Dynavector 10x5 or an Ortofon Black, the black is reputed to be top dog, taking on MC's around the price or a little more? Advantages, super smooooth presentation, big sound stage, even tighter base, and more detail than the Blue can ever think of . . . no need for a MC step up/phono stage. The Dynavector is perhaps the poor mans option, but will it suit the phono stage of my amplifier, and will it upset the musical apple cart?
Why not the 'OF Bronz' . . . its a Blue with knobs on, simply to bright and analytical for me I feel. I'm already on the edge of that, the way the system is sounding, more and more, closer and closer, almost over the edge. Almost but not quite, I'm still hanging on to its musicality, but I can see the holes . . . One must be careful to achieve a match when attempting to cover said holes.
Views on where one could look other than the options mentioned?
CJSF
Don't waste any more money or time on your Rega. You need to be looking Thorens, Linn or AR for the sound you want. Tinkering with tonearms, weights etc isn't going to help.
Also, Dynavector or Benz is what you want when you upgr ade, either that or the Ortofon MCs.
Good luck in your search, assuming that this is what you're on, as I don't really understand your posts 
Sorry , CJSF , but my mind has been boggled at what you might have to "singe for the ****postie" in order to get hold of your ISOweight ! Hopefully not the cat .
I wholeheartedly agree.
You are gradually replacing/modifying everything Rega made and it won't be much longer before all trace of Rega's original product has disappeared 
A Linn LP12 is an upgraders/tweakers dream. You will have so much more to play with.
I think I understand where CJSF is coming from.
The tweaks are part of the fun. The fun is part of the diversion and the diversion is part of the recovery process (as well as coming on here).
I have looked into the dark abyss myself this last couple years, and know how this sort of thing can greatly help. I'm not looking for sympathy, only showing possible empathy for OP's position.
Thanks ConEvil . . . as you say, the therapy is working great, I have some serious medication sitting on my desk, it has been there for 4 weeks. I refuse to go down that route!!!!! I am getting mentally stronger every day. The past nine months has been like a new life, freedom, no one is going to take that away. Thanks for your support mate.
Seeing the replies, its as though I have gone back 25 years in hifi terms . . . Linn? why go for an over priced Thorens! I never followed the party line then and I'm certainly not going to now.
The Rega is singing its little heart out for me with a minimum of cost or effort. Its pointing me in the direction I need to go.
Perhaps its not liked, that a Rega can really be made to work outside of the envelope? . . . Chebby, considering how closely you follow my threads, to suggest I will have nothing left of the original seems a bit naive. Or maybe, getting a Rega to realy work is a problem for you? The major changes have been power supply, platter and counter weight, thats it, anything else has been adjustments. All positive, the power supply is a Rega option, a platter change is a rout Rega endorse in the P7 and 9, even the the adjustment shims, Rega accept are required by thinking people. Nothing changes, including me it seems rocking the boat:D
HiFi . . . proper appreciation of same, seems to be very poor, the love of good, well produce music seems to be very thin on the ground. Getting the best from and for as little as possible is my aim, I think I'm nearly there . . . despite the hurdles that one comes up against . . . but that been my hifi life, doing what was not supposed to be doable!
I had a great session this evening with Emmylou Harris and 'Evangeline', superbly recorded back in '81' I think, I also treated myself to both sides of 'Dark Side of the Moon', the detail and music the CJSF Rega digs out of that album, I never had it down as a recording with finesse and detail untill now . Of course there were my usual test tracks, that do there goose bump stuff, wonderfull, even bigger goose bumps. I'm enjoying my music, even if, as it seems, other are not enjoying the reporting . . . wonder why?
I have a dream . . . a direction . . . and I am not a yes man! CJSF
Because it is almost infinitely upgradeable and I think that would suit your temperament as an experimenter.
You have explained about how it took hundreds/thousands of listening hours and modifications to get your award winning stands just right and have, again, demonstrated the same experimental/innovational mindset in constructing your own 'broken bell' laminated isolation platform as a solution to 'sub par' turntable placement.
I've never had a problem getting a Rega to work. Right from my first Planar 3 (1983) I discovered that optimal support was 80 percent of the job and fine levelling another 10 percent. (Back then I used a rigid and lightweight Target Turntable table with spiked platform for fine levelling and then I was gifted a Sound Organisation turntable table).
Another 5 percent from good alignment and fine adjustment of tracking force with my trusty Shure SFG-2 scales and the final 5 percent from location. In this house my Regas - on their table spiked through carpets to a concrete floor - always sat behind a solid bookcase (full of books) about 2 metres away from the nearest speaker to avoid any direct airborne vibration.
When necessary, I upgraded the steel counterweight to Rega's tungsten version (like the one you had).
My only deviations from the Rega instructions were undersetting the bias/anti-skate to well under half the value of the tracking force and gently brushing records with a carbon fibre brush before play.
Our differences probably come down to different styles of listening. I am not hyper-analytical and my listening is less 'forensic' than some.
In an ideal world (one where I could dance well) i'd rather have a dance floor than a 'listening chair'
Because it is almost infinitely upgradeable and I think that would suit your temperament as an experimenter.
You have explained about how it took hundreds/thousands of listening hours and modifications to get your award winning stands just right and have, again, demonstrated the same experimental/innovational mindset in constructing your own 'broken bell' laminated isolation platform as a solution to 'sub par' turntable placement.
I've never had a problem getting a Rega to work. Right from my first Planar 3 (1983) I discovered that optimal support was 80 percent of the job and fine levelling another 10 percent. (Back then I used a rigid and lightweight Target Turntable table with spiked platform for fine levelling and then I was gifted a Sound Organisation turntable table).
Another 5 percent from good alignment and fine adjustment of tracking force with my trusty Shure SFG-2 scales and the final 5 percent from location. In this house my Regas - on their table spiked through carpets to a concrete floor - always sat behind a solid bookcase (full of books) about 2 metres away from the nearest speaker to avoid any direct airborne vibration.
When necessary, I upgraded the steel counterweight to Rega's tungsten version (like the one you had).
My only deviations from the Rega instructions were undersetting the bias/anti-skate to well under half the value of the tracking force and gently brushing records with a carbon fibre brush before play.
Our differences probably come down to different styles of listening. I am not hyper-analytical and my listening is less 'forensic' than some.
In an ideal world (one where I could dance well) i'd rather have a dance floor than a 'listening chair'
Hay Ho Chebby . . . Never been impressed by Linns TT's, I used to have one in my 'family system' back in the 80's, but the test system in the listening room was headed by a Townsend Rock with all the goodies, blew the Linn away as an analytical tool as well as a musical item to simply listen to.
I am getting pleasure now from my efforts . . . hard work a few months ago . . . coming into a world that I did not recognise, probably did me good to regress to the good old days and ways, I still dont understand the modern way things seem to be don, it ain't 'hifi' IMHO. I have to thank you and all who helped in those early days, me not knowing, understanding or remembering, hard times. I am pretty well back as good as I'm going to be, not 100% but close, the Doc., says take the tablets . . . I say no, I want to be in control!
Back to the Rega, I chose it for the simple reason, 'it is simple', has a pedigree that is the best . . . and to get a P5, almost brand new, for the price of a P3-24, that was a deal! That was a few months ago, I was still (always will be?) recovering, I did not know where I was. However, The Rega is proving to be good for me, as you say a Linn can be tweaked and tweaked and . . . ! The basic TT is expensive . . . and thats how things continue 'expensive'. The various upgrades offered for Regas are numerous, many are, in my opinion, nothing more than side ways, flim-flam moves, but a few are genuine improvements. The adjustments are minimal and once done are forgotten
As we have agreed, a Rega TT is a fit and forget machine, its simply at what point you want to stop and how serious you are about the 'final voice' you want your Rega to have. My whole previous hifi life was fit, forget, move on. There is not much you can do with a speaker stand once sorted. My HiFi system was the same, Rock, Excalibur, denuded (another CJS innovation) SPU cartridge, EAR step up transformer, our own preamp that was occasionally swapped for the EAR pre, EAR 509's and a pair of Rogers LS35a's, that were in later years swapped about with the PMC LB1's. I seem to remember the above had this basic format from 1985 until the end in 95.
I'm a steady Eddy, trust my ears and make an elephant look like Fred Astaire on the dance floor. My problem, if it is a problem, I see errors in hifi quickly, I dont always see the solution as quickly these days, hence the type of post I tend to put up.
It was certainly a real achievement 'for me' to fully overcome the obvious less than ideal TT placement, Hobson's choice in my small roomed 1880's Victorian cottage. From there it has been an upward climb, personally and on the hifi front.
Which comes to the present, all the changes that I have kept, (some discarded) have added to the whole with out upsetting the basic musical presentation. One reads 'on line reviews' spitting out the bones, which there are often a lot of, take on board forum comments, puts these with ones own findings and then I think, long and hard. That thinking has lead me to the sort of view; the ISOweight does the same (a similar?) job as various other more expensive and complicated offerings. I'm happy at this point, I cant see any more meaningful changes to the turn table. You are right about tracking and bias, errors are so obvious now, with the ISOweight, adjustments are all possible by ear, especially bias, do that as the track is running! its right now, adjusted and forgotten . . .
That was my view a couple of days ago, and still is, however, the ISOweight opened a window, showing me information on records I did not know were there . . . It allowed the 2M Blue to extract minute detail because of the improved tracking imparted. Base and mid-range is fine but the higher frequencies . . . they are on the edge for me.
So, the hunt was on, read all I could find, cos you can rarely find a shop who can dem in your system, and in any case, as I found out, almost to my cost, the 'M' cartridges need a lot of 'running in'. There seem to be loads of candidates, but the indications are my best shot will be the Dynavector 10x5 or the 2M Black?
The Dyno is cheap . . . in comparison with the Black, but seems to be??? if my reading is right a bit forward and perhaps rough around the edges . . . compared with the Black. The nude Shibata stylus in the Black is a smoooooth operator, the word is, to smooth for some, I like 'to smooth' . . . all the detail and analytical properties of the 2m's but smooth, like a pint of John Smiths. The one sticking point I see consistently in a lot of forum replies . . . the writer is always right, their way is the best and only way . . . more than one way to skin a cat . . . there is normally more than more than one solution to a problem, and there are many preferences that need considering.
There you have it Chebby, I cant see any more moves after a cartridge change. Then I would agree, a new TT, but not a Linn . . . Then comes the question, but how will that sit with the entry level Croft CI-P . . . nah, I'll be happy to stick at the CJSF Rega, its a balanced system, get out the slippers . . . I dont smoke, and enjoy my retirement; car boot music bargains, garden and photography.
Never say 'never' . . . trust your ears . . . CJSF
Then I would agree, a new TT, but not a Linn . . .
Never say 'never' . . .
Linns of old had a mid-range bloom that I loved, but I know people that didn't like it. They seemed to have a synergy with the Naim amps of the day, but wouldn't have made a good analytical tool.
Modern Linns, with all the various improvements over the years (especially the power supplies), now sound much more neutral. The speed of the platter is far more accurately controlled on the modern incarnation.
Any examples of these modern ways/things that, in your opinion, aren't hifi?
Any examples of these modern ways/things that, in your opinion, aren't hifi?
How about equipment changing without auditioning first, seems to be a very common procedure these days? Back in the good old days, that was heresy! Only 'music centers' where bought that way . . . 
There is a lot of throwing money at problems, with out sitting and thinking first, the old creep up from behind scenario can work wonders.
However I can understand some of it, because you see Chebby, there is not a lot of room for tweaking or adjustment on a computer or CD player:D
I remember around 1988-89'ish, I started to feel the lack of enthusiasm creeping on, Meridian top loading CDp, it just was not hifi and still is not . . . IMHO
But it does have its good side, no jumping up and down to change sides, listening at this moment to a beautiful CD of classical romantic piano music, very nice indeed, but is it hifi?
CJSF
How about equipment changing without auditioning first, seems to be a very common procedure these days? Back in the good old days, that was heresy! Only 'music centers' where bought that way . . .
There is a lot of throwing money at problems, with out sitting and thinking first, the old creep up from behind scenario can work wonders.
However I can understand some of it, because you see Chebby, there is not a lot of room for tweaking or adjustment on a computer or CD player:D
I remember around 1988-89'ish, I started to feel the lack of enthusiasm creeping on, Meridian top loading CDp, it just was not hifi and still is not . . . IMHO
But it does have its good side, no jumping up and down to change sides, listening at this moment to a beautiful CD of classical romantic piano music, very nice indeed, but is it hifi?
CJSF
. . . and whilst I'm on the subject . . . 'the old creep up from behind scenario can work wonders' . . . I sat and had a good think, if the ISOweight has opend a window, more detail because of better tracking and all that . . . everything is OK apart from the top end being a bit near the edge for me . . . ?
'Better tracking' . . . could I now reduce the VTA? . . . Problem, its a pain to remove shims to test . . . put a thicker platter mat on . . . Mmm, not got a 3mm mat but I have a 1mm = the standard Rega 2mm . . .
Top end better, so out with the screw driver . . . 30 minutes later, minus 1mm of shim, 3mm down to 2mm, is it an improvement, not forgetting to take off the additional 1mm platter mat;) I had to get Hazel in, said nothing, just asked her to listen . . . "much better" said she. Top end had moved away from the 'edge', still sharp and analytical but not erring so close towards uncomfortable bright! There was a bonus, wider sound stage and better back to front perception, the cellos on Jennifer Warnes album were stunning, low frequencies remained generally unaffected.
Makes a point for me, the ISOweight is doing a great job, I may have a bit more of a fiddle with tracking and bias? . . . but I'm tired now, so relax, head is aching.
What does it mean for me . . . I'm not in so much of a hurry to spend £450!!! 
before I've considered more options . . .
. . . sit, think, approach problems from a different angle, it works so often . . . CJSF
. . . and whilst I'm on the subject . . . 'the old creep up from behind scenario can work wonders' . . . Makes a point for me, the ISOweight is doing a great job, I may have a bit more of a fiddle with tracking and bias? . . . but I'm tired now, so relax, head is aching.
What does it mean for me . . . I'm not in so much of a hurry to spend £450!!! before I've considered more options . . .
. . . sit, think, approach problems from a different angle, it works so often . . . CJSF
. . . this is the end of the cartridge saga . . . for the time being. Off work today, again! getting old is not turning out to be much fun . . . well it wasn't at 7 o'clock this morning in a heap, on the floor by the bed . . . right knee gave way, been dodgy for a few years now. The good side, by about 11am, feeling a bit better, need my stick, but walking better, self employed taxi driver, so I gave myself the rest of the day off . . .
Cup of tea, do a few bits of paper work . . . while the amplifier cooks up . . .
Left yesterday as; . . . "ISOweight is doing a great job, I may have a bit more of a fiddle with tracking and bias?" So being the fiddler that I am, I decided to confirm my adjustments of Sunday, as it was a very tiring day?
Could I take any more of the shims out, had a listen with my various thickness mats . . . no, definitely not the VTA needs 2mm. What about the stylus tip weight, already showing less than 2gs on the arm dial, a tad less . . . better and again 'half a tad', very delicate . . . yes, I'm getting an organic feeling to the sound . . . Very exciting . . . in my previous hifi life, I had my system tuned to produce this organic (harmonic feel) sound that I used to call 'rubbery'. Imagine a drum being struck, the head is a stretched material that has give, 'rubbery', I'm hearing that first dynamic harmonic hit, same with base guitars etc. Solo voice has mouth, chest and head sounds (cave like echo) these are coming through as clear as day. My much loved organ recordings have never sounded so naturally windy and harmonic.
Its like layers of music, tune into what ever instrument or part of the performance you like. The image has improved dramatically. I made mention Sunday, but tiredness I thought might have been playing tricks . . . back to front, side to side belies the size of my tiny 12'x12' cottage room.
The top end brightness has settled into 'detail' that I am enjoying.
As I say, 'the end' . . . for the present . . . read a whole load of reviews on various cartridge options . . . The 2M Black has it for me . . . if what I'm extracting from my grooves is a measure, the 'black' can do this with knobs on . . . I have achieved my 1980's audiophile sound . . . I'll enjoy 'wearing the Blue out first', then consider the Black and its cost . . . ?
My tweaking has paid off, one problem now, I played a few CD tracks over lunch . . . dull or what!
Listening to 'Antiphone Blues' (Proprius Label) saxophone, church organ and the church acoustic. I can move about in the room, the image is solid! the rubbery organic sound is simply beguiling. Sorry if the above sounds 'OTT' . . . I'm simply excited at having achieved a goal against the odds? Looking at the rest of the system, it has simply don its job, says a lot for the Croft amp and a pair of 20 year old speakers.
. . . . relaxed . . . enjoying the music, trusted my ears, with a bit of sideways thinking and a lot of tenacity. Looking forward to some Hazel type, oven cooked fish and chips with mushy peas for dinner, simplicity, cant get any better . . . and its only Monday!
CJSF
. . . this is the end of the cartridge saga . . . for the time being. Off work today, again! getting old is not turning out to be much fun . . . well it wasn't at 7 o'clock this morning in a heap, on the floor by the bed . . . right knee gave way, been dodgy for a few years now. The good side, by about 11am, feeling a bit better, need my stick, but walking better, self employed taxi driver, so I gave myself the rest of the day off . . .
CJSF
That's what I call" falling for your hobby"....I hope there's no lasting damage.
Perhaps you should have tried the Michell Technoweight first. (Quite a few positive accounts of it here in the past.)
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