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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW's picture
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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

marou wrote:

When Benn's Bristol constituency disappeared, rather than subject his controversial views to a marginal constituency, he opted to being parachuted into the safe Chesterfield seat - principled or the actions of a practiced politician?

Name me one politician that wouldn't have done that? 

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

marou wrote:

the only left wing politicians who achieve anything are those who recognise that you have to take the country with you. Blair knew this and succeeded, Benn didn't and failed.

Blair wasn't a left wing politician; he was centre-right and moved further to the right over time.

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW wrote:

strapped for cash wrote:

I was naive enough to vote for Blair in '97.

I also voted for him in 2001, but I haven't voted since.

That puts you squarely into the camp of the misguided also.......

I need say no more

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW wrote:

marou wrote:

When Benn's Bristol constituency disappeared, rather than subject his controversial views to a marginal constituency, he opted to being parachuted into the safe Chesterfield seat - principled or the actions of a practiced politician?

Name me one politician that wouldn't have done that? 

So he was just like any other politician. Nothing wrong with that but his supporters claim he was different i.e. principled when in fact he was no different.

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW wrote:

strapped for cash wrote:

I was naive enough to vote for Blair in '97.

I also voted for him in 2001, but I haven't voted since.

I don't really buy into Russell Brand's yellow snow-cone or EDITED sandwich argument (I'm not saying you do, either).

Brand wants a revolution; fine. Until one arrives, I'll vote for the party I feel is least evil, and least likely to cause irreparable harm to most of the electorate and national infrastructure. 

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

marou wrote:

1. Won 3 elections for Labour

With many Conservative policies

marou wrote:

2. Repealed clause 28

There are arguments both for and against  that.

marou wrote:

3. Built dozens of new hospitals and schools

By borrowing money that we are now paying back, money that didn't need to be borrowed. I saw the waste of money first hand in the hospitals, wards being refurbished, then closed down straight after. I'm not saying it was all bad, but it could and should have been done a lot better, and a lot cheaper.

marou wrote:

4. Reduced hospital waiting times

Which are now longer because of the all the money wasted and having to be repayed

marou wrote:

5. Introduced the minimum wage

A good thing, no argument.

marou wrote:

6. Intervened successfully in Bosnia and Sierra Leone

But took us to war for oil, lying to parliament and the people of this country in the process, and being completely responsible for any associated deaths. 

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

The only man to stand up to Ali G and come off well as a result:

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-YYroSudUs

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

strapped for cash wrote:

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW wrote:

strapped for cash wrote:

I was naive enough to vote for Blair in '97.

I also voted for him in 2001, but I haven't voted since.

I don't really buy into Russell Brand's yellow snow-cone or EDITED sandwich argument (I'm not saying you do, either).

Brand wants a revolution; fine. Until one arrives, I'll vote for the party I feel is least evil, and least likely to cause irreparable harm to most of the electorate and national infrastructure. 

I won't, and I don't think I'll ever vote again. 

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

strapped for cash wrote:

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW wrote:

strapped for cash wrote:

I was naive enough to vote for Blair in '97.

I also voted for him in 2001, but I haven't voted since.

I don't really buy into Russell Brand's yellow snow-cone or EDITED sandwich argument (I'm not saying you do, either).

Brand wants a revolution; fine. Until one arrives, I'll vote for the party I feel is least evil, and least likely to cause irreparable harm to most of the electorate and national infrastructure. 

 

I'd normally assume you meant the Lib Dems but given the nature of the government you must mean a party that won't get any seats. Maybe the Greens?

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BenLaw wrote:

The only man to stand up to Ali G and come off well as a result:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-YYroSudUs

Though hopefully this isn't the first thing people think of when Benn's name is mentioned. (I'm surprised this interview hasn't been replayed yet, given most channels' commitment to infotainment.)

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW wrote:

It depends what you class as achievements, but I would say that Tony Benn's biggest achievement, and the thing that I most respect him for, is that he stayed true to his beliefs, and he was always honest, both things in which Mr Blair failed. 

Blair sought privilege, Benn rejected it.

Tony Benn is the clear achiever in my book. A good man 

 

The time when Benn was most politically relevant is rather before my time, politically. From what I know, I respect him for upholding his values also. I did, however, hear an interesting point of view on the radio about him today. It began sounding like the usual maniac type that calls a phone in, but his point (clearly coming from the Left) was that whilst he didn't call for Benn to have abandoned his convictions, the fact he put them so forcefully and was in conflict with Foot led directly to division within the Labour party, which contributed greatly to Thatcher's ability to win so many elections, having a divided opposition. I don't know to what extent anyone thinks that rings true, maybe people could calmly let me know.

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BenLaw wrote:

I'd normally assume you meant the Lib Dems but given the nature of the government you must mean a party that won't get any seats. Maybe the Greens?

How I vote is between me and the ballot box, Ben! Smile

I was arguing that, in the absence of a revolution, it's better to vote than not. My fear with regard to Brand's argument is that it'll encourage many young voters to abstain, further cementing a right-wing (neoliberal) orthodoxy.

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

strapped for cash wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

I'd normally assume you meant the Lib Dems but given the nature of the government you must mean a party that won't get any seats. Maybe the Greens?

How I vote is between me and the ballot box, Ben! Smile

I was arguing that, in the absence of a revolution, it's better to vote than not. My fear with regard to Brand's argument is that it'll encourage many young voters to abstain, further cementing a right-wing (neoliberal) orthodoxy.

 

I haven't followed Brand's political views. I'm not optimistic about a revolution. I'm not sure I see much of an opposition to a neoliberal orthodoxy either.

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

strapped for cash wrote:

I was arguing that, in the absence of a revolution, it's better to vote than not. 

I don't agree Strapped. Why would I vote for something I don't want, just because I disagree with it slightly less than the alternative?

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RE: Anthony Wedgewood Benn passes

BenLaw wrote:

The time when Benn was most politically relevant is rather before my time, politically. From what I know, I respect him for upholding his values also. I did, however, hear an interesting point of view on the radio about him today. It began sounding like the usual maniac type that calls a phone in, but his point (clearly coming from the Left) was that whilst he didn't call for Benn to have abandoned his convictions, the fact he put them so forcefully and was in conflict with Foot led directly to division within the Labour party, which contributed greatly to Thatcher's ability to win so many elections, having a divided opposition. I don't know to what extent anyone thinks that rings true, maybe people could calmly let me know.

That's a valid historical account to some degree, though during the '80s, the so-called "winter of discontent" was fresher in the electorate's memory.

Meanwhile, the so-called "working classes" bought into the Conservative narrative that economic liberalisation created opportunities for all. Three-and-a-bit decades later, Thatcher's legacy is clear.

The market can regulate itself. Unfortunately, it does so in ways that foster the continued upward redistribution of wealth; depress the middle; force escalating numbers of working households into poverty; remove safety nets; dismantle rights that inconvenience business; and encourage private enterprise to strangle the public sector.

Perhaps a more robustly socialist Labour Party (aligned with Benn's philosophy) could have mitigated some of this damage. Alternatively, a more robustly socialist Labour Party might have been unelectable. We're into alternative histories, so we'll never know.

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