Richer Sounds - Price claim integrity?
Hope this is in the right section - my first post.
I should say this is not a post to slag off RS, I've bought from them in the past and may buy from them again but I'm worried.
I'm considering replacing my system and have been doing some comparison of prices. RS's pricing and price claims seem 'idiosincratic' to say the least.
On Cambridge stuff they claim a discount against 'TSP - typical selling price' but they are exclusive retailers of CA stuff so the 'TSP' is the RS price. On the Azur 540A v2 this site gives the price as £250, RS list price is £279.95 ie £30 more! On the 540C RS list at £229.95 - again £30 over the pirice quoted on here
This is an issue on their separates bundle deals when their claimed '£160 saving' is made up of £30 + £30 'extra' on CA components and the rest is against the £150 TSP on MS speakers (which RS are also involved with) so £100 saving at best.
http://www.richersounds.com/information.php?cda=static&cst=hifisystems
On NAD components the RS price claims seem even more bizarre. The C325BEE is listed by RS at £269.95 and 'lowest price guaranteed' but Superfi have it at £229.99 (£40 difference!), The C515BEE has a similar price claim and again Superfi are cheaper (by £10). As superfi is very similar to RS and their pricing is clear and obvious I'm concerned the RS price claims are at best 'fly' and possibly dishonest.
Are Richer Sounds, after all, being dishonest with their price claims and expoiting customers?
Has it made you question Rs as a company that respects its customers? It's certainly made me think twice about them
I do agree with the strange TSP on CA seeing as they are the sole retailers of the CA in the UK, BUT I've never looked into the prices in Europe like the second poster said to do...
But yes, the lowest price guaranteed is more to do with their excellent Price Beat policy. I have used their price beat more than once and never come up against a grimace or snarl (other shops are more than happy to basically tell you where to go if you ask to price match, let alone price beat!) For that reason alone I believe that RS respects it's customers and most of all, want to give you good customer service and keep you as a regular! (No, I don't work for them if that spiel sounds like a speech from an employee lol)
A couple of issues for me here. Firstly, Richers have always been excellent in my experience. Their pricing on the CA stuff is very good (compare it to what the CA gear costs in any other country!) and they are always very keen to give a good deal and support it with decent service.
HOWEVER, I notice the comparison with Superfi above and have to disagree. The two are NOT similar. Richers are still something of a pile 'em high discounter, largely without demonstration facilities and with a relatively limited range of options.
My recent experience of Superfi has shown that their staff are amongst the most knowledgeable in the business and the range of products they stock is excellent. They have good demonstration facilities and their pricing is consistently fair. When I was waiting to collect my new hi-fi I listened to conversations 2 staff were having with seperate customers. One was about choice of speakers and the other was an introductory demonstration of the way in which the Sonos system works. Product knowledge from both staff was clearly a cut above and there was a genuine interest to achieve a sale by supporting and informing the customer rather than pushing them in a particular direction.
This is where Richers can fall down. Its unusual to go into one of their stores without having one of the brands they are involved with recommended. They will nearly always recommend CA over other brands and I think the advice given can sometimes be a little unbalanced for this reason.
rogthedodge:On Cambridge stuff they claim a discount against 'TSP - typical selling price' but they are exclusive retailers of CA stuff so the 'TSP' is the RS price. On the Azur 540A v2 this site gives the price as £250, RS list price is £279.95 ie £30 more! On the 540C RS list at £229.95 - again £30 over the pirice quoted on here
RS have recently raised the price of some of their Cambridge products, hence the discrepancy between the reviews on this site and the RS website.
As regards the TSP, this is, I think, a blanket policy by RS, and make sense when the product is stocked by other retailers. Obviously with products for which it is the sole UK distributor, it can seem a bit odd, but nothing sinister.
I have to say, however, that I would not purchase from RS again. I have on two occasions brought a product home and unpacked it, only to find that someone else had clearly been there first. Fair play to them, they replaced both products without fuss or drama.
With the current offer of a full money-back guarantee after 2 weeks (is it?) on the higher range CA amps if not satisfied, essentially a home demo, you do have to wonder what is happening to all those essentially second hand amps.
tractorboy:I have to say, however, that I would not purchase from RS again. I have on two occasions brought a product home and unpacked it, only to find that someone else had clearly been there first. Fair play to them, they replaced both products without fuss or drama. With the current offer of a full money-back guarantee after 2 weeks (is it?) on the higher range CA amps if not satisfied, essentially a home demo, you do have to wonder what is happening to all those essentially second hand amps.
Looks like you already have the answer to that one....
RS are doing what every other retailer does, that's all. It's about the laws of advertising price reductions and all retailers play the game. Perhaps the only retailer who has a true 100% 'accurate' sale is Argos as they can only compare against previous catalogue price. Have you ever noticed how Tesco sell things at 'half price' on a regular basis? Some are supplier funded and others like blueberries...
Well have you ever seen blueberries at £4 per punnet? But they are often on half price at £1.99 per punnet. I find it all very dishonest and I work in advertising. The rules, although meaning well, can be circumnavigated using underhand tactics. The trick as a consumer, is not to believe everything you see and make a value judgement yourself. That may mean only buying blueberries when on promotion, and then raspberries the following week etc etc.
Certainly buying from Carpetright and others is a false economy as half of their stock is always on offer at 50% off, then the next month it's the other half and the original stuff is then on at 'full price', but it's not really the true price which would be the offer price. It's just a legal tactic, and one that I personally find misleading.
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Good points all.
Like Joel I work in the business and accept that retailers work within the law (such as it is). Perhaps I've been naive in the past, I viewed RS as a company that could be trusted implicitly. Having recently started looking at prices & claims while planning an upgrade I became concerned about RS's price claims.
On the RS/Superfi comparison that's a fair point but actually makes the situation worse - Superfi offer more facilities and yet RS choose to ignore Superfi's published superior prices and still claim 'best price guaranteed' which is patently false (albeit legal).
RS raise their prices and then claim a greater discount is given on bundle deals - hmmm
Glad it's not just me. I'll approach them with much greater caution going forward
Richer Sound always have at least 3 published prices for everything. 
What with internet price VIP price Shop price etc. To be fair they warn you on their web site. I don't think they are hiding anything.
I would say do your research first. Richer Sound will always pricesmatch in my experience if you provide proof.
Press ads can pretty much claim what they like and they won't get done unless it's blatant. TV is different and everything has to be approved by the BACC or they won't give it a clock number and the station will refuse to air it.
The ASA is mostly an advisory body. Funnily enough I read an article in Which yesterday stating exactly the same findings that to claim a saving, a product must have been on sale at the higher price for at least 28 days in order to do a was/now comparison or claim like half price. All supermarkets surveyed ignored this ruling with blueberries being 'on sale' for 8 weeks out of the previous 3 months at Tesco.
Quite a few things raised here that I'd like to pick up from where I sit as a key supplier to Richer Sounds and someone visits a lot of their stores and speaks to a lot of their people...
"RS are a pile it high sell it cheap discounter" - Yes and no, Yes, they sell product at low prices and should be proud of this, however actually they have changed significantly over the past year or so and now offer a much improved buying environment, smart dem rooms in many stores (with more rolling out) and an increased training program to backup their "expert advice" statements. See their "Be Inspired" brochure on their website if you haven't been to an RS store for a while. Of course in a team of 300+ people there are going to be a small number (who are new or whatever) who don't always deliver 100% but in my experience RS do try extremely hard to know what they are talking about and do have extensive measures (e.g. mystery shoppers etc) in place to ensure they do. And if there is ever a complaint then they deal with it fast. The commitment is there from the very top to deliver service that retains customer loyalty and Mr Richer has even made a reputation for himself writing books on the subject.
"TSPs" Again, in my experience I have found RS to be of high integrity here and are very careful to ensure they do not mislead. They do genuinely operate as a business that is there for the long term not just a fast buck. Their Cambridge TSPs are based on an average of the lowest retail prices existing elsewhere in Europe. Because RS buy from us directly, UK customers do enjoy the lowest prices in Europe.
"Lowest prices Guaranteed" and the RS price beat - with such a fast-moving market and transparency on the web it is always possible to find a lower price somewhere. RS are quite a big and strong organisation so in my experience they use this strength to ensure they are consistently the cheapest, because they can afford to be. But there is always going to be an internet retailer that you can chance your money with if you like and after all the hassle maybe not even get the product you ordered. Richer's price beat gives customers the opportunity to buy at the lowest price at a trusted outlet that in my experience genuinely cares about its customers and delivers good after-sales service.
It is unfortunate to hear that tractorboy has had a problem with a couple of purchases at RS and forums like this are always going to raise issues, however I know this kind of error happens very rarely at RS. On Cambridge 740 and 840 ranges, in order to give customers the ability to try the product in home (due to lack of dem rooms in some stores) RS do offer a 30 day money-back satisfaction guarantee, however they get very very few back and RS don't play tricks and try and put them back out as new.
You can say I am biased because I sell to RS but this is genuinely my take on the situation!
welshboy:Richer Sound always have at least 3 published prices for everything.
I would say do your research first. Richer Sound will always pricesmatch in my experience if you provide proof.
I am amazed that anyone can knock RS over prices when they will drop any price if you can find it cheaper! Basically they are saying that they can't scour the market daily and change prices all the time but they are happy to offer the best price you can get for a product! I have a RS near me (a mile away). If ever I wanted something that they stocked I would hunt around and then buy from them. Considering they have a lot of shops, I reckon that is exactly what they want people to do. In today's climate especially, I would say that is a very good business plan.
Further to the comments from "Cambridge Audio CEO", I can confirm that our TSP prices for Cambridge Audio products are derived from an average of the selling prices available in Europe. Our TSP prices for other brands come from various sources, including the manufacturers suggested retail prices, independent magazines (such as What Hi-Fi), as well as other retailers prices.
TSP prices are only meant as a rough guide for customers and we always encourage customers to do their own research on prices prior to making a purchase. Absolutely, it is never our intention to mislead customers, especially considering we put so much hard work into providing our valued customers with excellent service.
Unfortunately it isn't possible for us to know exactly what deals our competitors are planning to publish and this is why occasionally our prices may be higher. Bearing this in mind, we do have a no quibble price challenge which always guarantees our customers the best deal - this is even valid up to 7 days after your purchase!
I do hope this has cleared-up any misunderstanding. If any customers have any further queries then please do not hesitate to contact me and I will be more than happy to help.
Yours faithfully,
John Clayton
Operations Director
Richer Sounds:Further to the comments from "Cambridge Audio CEO", I can confirm that our TSP prices for Cambridge Audio products are derived from an average of the selling prices available in Europe. Our TSP prices for other brands come from various sources, including the manufacturers suggested retail prices, independent magazines (such as What Hi-Fi), as well as other retailers prices.
TSP prices are only meant as a rough guide for customers and we always encourage customers to do their own research on prices prior to making a purchase. Absolutely, it is never our intention to mislead customers, especially considering we put so much hard work into providing our valued customers with excellent service.
Unfortunately it isn't possible for us to know exactly what deals our competitors are planning to publish and this is why occasionally our prices may be higher. Bearing this in mind, we do have a no quibble price challenge which always guarantees our customers the best deal - this is even valid up to 7 days after your purchase!
I do hope this has cleared-up any misunderstanding. If any customers have any further queries then please do not hesitate to contact me and I will be more than happy to help.
Yours faithfully,
John Clayton
Operations Director
Very good to see another retailer answering queries directly through this forum and very good to see such clarity and willingness to communicate with the customer base. One of the greatest challenges in this industry is keeping up with pricing across other retailers. It isn't always necessary to be the cheapest though - service, support and demonstration facilities are worth something.
Thanks for the input John & Cambridge CEO.
It wasn't my intention to knock RS in terms of their service, just their price claims. My local RS branch (Leeds) are very helpful and do offer exceptional service. Then again so do Superfi
I think in price terms I was comparing like with like (RS vs Superfi) and although I appreciate RS will beat published prices the slightly dubious claims did unsettle me and led me to Superfi. I'm lucky in that their branches about 300m apart.
In the end I went for a Yamaha / Arcam AV set up rather than the NAD combo I was originally looking at and therefore spent a grand with Superfi. I could possibly have saved £10 at RS (or not) but comparison fatigue sets in fairly quickly and it only takes a minor wobble to push you in one direction.
Clearly it's not an issue on CA stuff but I do think that on NAD etc RS should be a bit more careful on the boldness of their price claims.
Cheers
R
This may be petty, but a few years ago I tried hard to get some brochures out of Richer Sounds, from both the store operation and their distribution arm (NAD etc), with no success. This included returning a number of coupons from their press ads!
I concluded then that they did not want my business, which is what they will never get! 
When RS quote 'lowest price guaranteed' they are referring to their Price Beat policy (whereby they check the authenticity of the price and genuine stock availability with a competitor) and then reduce their price accordingly.
Are RS being dishonest with their price claims and exloiting customers? In a word, no.
Check the pricing of CA in Europe or further afield if you want some reassurance of their pricing integrity.
I have shopped with Superfi and RS over the years and rarely been disappointed with their service