Oh, I'm not so sure - it started off as a thread about mad commies, and seems to have continued entirely on topic.......
Incidentally, I'm certainly not a "mad commie." Again, you're cheapening any argument you're trying to make with reductive binary language (i.e. I either believe in zero state intervention or I'm friend to Kim Jong-un).
I'm no keener to be exploited by the state than private enterprise. To be clear, I have greater faith in a more strictly regulated capitalist system that curbs the elite's unforgiveable excesses and reduces the ever widening gap between the have lots and have nots (on a micro and macro economic level).
Though certainly very far from perfect, greater regulation and clamping down in a meaningful way on tax avoidance at the very top would prove a considerably more effective deficit reduction strategy. Unfortunately, from a ConDem and arguably Labour standpoint, this would mean alienating sponsors.
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There are two things about this forum that might make me stop posting.
One is the speed of the site, and two is obvious, and I choose to ignore him, and never ever ever respond.
Just ignore him, it's really not that hard.
While I'm inclined to agree, I also feel this would be admitting defeat; not simply at a personal level, but also from broader philosophical/ideological standpoint.
The website speed is bloody annoying, too...
Why do you think he does it Strapped?
If we all treated him like he doesn't exist, he doesn't exist.
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I know, don't feed the troll...
There seem two possibilities here.
1) Cloverleaf is making outlandish statements to provoke a response.
2) Cloverleaf is an offensively right wing ideologue and needs confronting.
If it's option two, I'm likely ******* into the wind, but it gives me some sense of relief.
Predictable but amusing; the lefties pour scorn, but have no cogent argument in response.
Twas ever thus
I'm not convinced you made a cogent argument in the first place.
So far, as I understand it, you're arguing that Clegg has been a barrier to more sweeping (actual) cuts and that those rendered near destitute should be hit even harder. Presumably you'd cut taxes further at the top, because, you know, these people are very talented and the engines of the economy. What's more, there would be an immediate talent drain should we dare to suggest a fourth holiday home and yacht might be a little extravagant.
You then threw out a Daily Mail statistic and declared "I'm done!"
Excuse the Apprenticism, but I'd like to "drill down to the specifics." Can you detail precisely where you'd cut and to what degree? We're looking for numbers here rather than sweeping generalisations, knee-jerk reaction, and divide and rule rhetoric. Once you've produced your manifesto, I'll be happy to work through the finer details.
I said I wouldn't post again on this subject, but for crying out loud.
What I actually stated was a material fact; you may not like it, you may find it inconvenient, you may even try and discredit it by rolling out the tired old "Daily Mail" taunt, so beloved of the Guardian reading minority, but. It happens to be true.
Here's another one you won't like - Out of the 1.4 Million claimants who did attend the medical, 55% were found to be well enough to attend work immediately. I appreciate that as a hack, your realtionship with facts is probably a bit tenuous, however it doesn't make them any less true.
If you really think the capping welfare benefits at a maximum of £26000 will leave people "destitute", I would refer you to the many hard working people who earn substatially less than this amount, and pay taxes to allow others to stay at home and do nothing.
How very heartless of me.
Please define "material fact." Countless philosophers (and mathematicians) argue that there's no such thing as absolute truth. You're referring to highly subjective appraisals based on tick-box exercises. Are you familiar with the criteria for these assessments? Can you state categorically that this is a failsafe mechanism for evaluating one's ability to work?
As usual, particularly right wing individuals latch onto a convenient binary, hence the "divide and rule" comment in my previous post. According to such language, you're either well enough to start work immediately, or so severely disabled that getting out of bed is impossible.
According to your logic there's no grey area here. I'm happy to concede that some people are benefit cheats. I have little more respect for such individuals than for a plutocratic elite holding the majority of the global population to ransom. The latter group would rather watch a third of the global population starve to death than entertain the possibility of debt reduction. A few hundred quid a month off the social seems small potatoes by comparison. However, as I say, I'm not making a case for benefit theft.
Let me give you an example that might complicate your "well enough or not" equation. A close relative is diagnosed with severe mental health problems and spent the best part of eighteen months under section. Thankfully he's not been hospitalised for just over a year now, though his mental health difficulties remain highly debilitating. His benefits have already been reduced and are set to be cut further.
We're not a wealthy family and unable to support him full time. Admittedly he can walk and use his hands, so technically he's capable of really demeaning work. Perhaps he could work as a labourer, where really insensitive blokes could mock him for being a bit strange? It'd do his self esteem the world of good. He has zero self confidence and becomes particularly distressed if taunted or confronted. That's precisely how he was treated when he did a factory job several years ago.
All that aside, you still haven't detailed what course of action should be taken. Furthermore, the £26,000 figure isn't representative of the overwhelming majority of benefit claims, though it's a convenient reference point if you want to demonise a particular section of society. It's that binary logic again. As I say, those with extreme views tend to argue with extremes and ignore the stuff in the middle.
Your "hack" comment also cheapens an already non-existent argument. It's a shame you had to resort to that.
Ah, the old "I've lost the argument on the facts, so I better try and throw some philosophy at it to disguise the fact that I've been made to look like a numpty" approach
To try and make this easier for you, let me expalin what a material fact is. Manchester United beat Sunderland 1-0 this weekend. That is a fact. It's black and white, no gray areas. You might not like that fact if you are a Sunderland supporter, but not liking it doesn't change it.
I have given you two factual examples which are accurate and nothing to to with shades of grey.
Now, I understand that you and some others don't like those facts, but no one has come back with a rational intelligent response, or any facts of their own to support a counter argument; all you can do is resort to insults such as "troll", just because you happen not to like my political views.
There was once a man who took a similiar view to his political opponents, he was a painter from Austria. Rather than try and put up any rational arguments against them, he just shot them instead.
Rather than keep bleating on about my "manifesto", why not state what you would be prepared to cut yourself ? Why not be be a bit braver than the 2 Eds, who refuse to confirm that they would reverse these cuts if back in power ?
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Forgive me, but where exactly did I say you were a mad commie ? ?
I guess if the caps fits, wear it.......
You know what annoys me?The fact that threads like this with its posts full of utter tripe are allowed by mods to continue,this is a site to discuss and find info relating to hifi/av no?
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I thought it was to do with korea.
formerly known as slewis ---
This is "Off Topic and Miscellaneous," so in that regard has nothing to do with hi-fi and AV. Admittedly discussion has deviated greatly from the original topic, but that's not uncommon in this section.
So anyway, to reset the thread, what's going on with those North Koreans?
He is a number one, and he's also a number two.
Strapped, I'll be annoyed with you if you do respond to him, you're a better man than that.
If you read the title of the Forum, it says "Off Topic".
That's the clue.
It was in the quote attached to my response. You also just did it again.
Now now Bernard, I beleive someone once said "It's costs nothing to be nice"
Or do you not take your own advice ?
Right, so it says that "S******d is mad commie" ?
Er, that would be a no then. Another material fact for you
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