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Hey The_Lhc

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John Duncan's picture
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RE: Hey The_Lhc

It was maxflinn.  Do I win?

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

No, you've broken the rules and used inside information. 

Cheat!! :grin:

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

strapped for cash wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

strapped for cash wrote:
ID. wrote:

Not sure that I've ever been on the receiving end, but if I was I'd want to check my facts and position because I don't think he does anything just to be contrarian.

So as an extension of that rationale it's fine to insult other posters, as long as there's some logic to your commentary?

I might debate the word "insult" (if I could be bothered but I've had this conversation too many times and nobody bloody listens so I can't be bothered), I might be blunt but personal insults are rare.

Quote:
As I stated earlier, it's possible to contribute to debate in a constructive way that's respectful others. Forum members have varying levels of expertise. Regular posters are usually armed with good knowledge, but some post seeking advice from members more heavily invested in AV technology and culture. Ill informed commentary may require correction, but this can be done without resorting to insult.

When I am at my most ascerbic it's almost always directed towards the regular contributors who really should know better, I don't generally do that to new people, unless they come storming in spouting off as if they own the place and talking complete nonsense (and we've had a few of those lately).

Quote:
All taste cultures make rabid disctinctions. AV culture is no exception. It's not difficult to map a hierarchy of forum members. Assertions of authority that belittle others are efforts to stake one's claim to position. Roughly translated, the insulting contributor is saying "I am the expert here, acknowledge my superiority." Insulting comments quickly become tedious and little effort is needed to unpack the psychology.

Or maybe some of us just like seeing accurate information being given to others? If I was that desperate to show my superiority I'd get involved in the all AVI threads.

I'd suggest implying that people are stupid is insulting.

If somebody is wrong about something then simply pointing that out is going to implicitly question their intelligence, there isn't much you can do about that, regardless of the tone you use.

Quote:
Again, it's possible to provide accurate information in a friendly manner. My observations are about language and tone, rather than accuracy.

There are too many people that won't pay attention to a "friendly" tone, particularly the established members (for reasons you hinted at previously). Sometimes you can't burst a bubble with a feather. You need a EDITED for that... (am I making this too easy for people?)

The_Lhc's picture
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RE: Hey The_Lhc

strapped for cash wrote:
I guess they're not going to fess-up, so we'll have to speculate. Surely this is worthy of a thread in its own right.

Maybe it's The_Lhc, starting a good-cop-bad-cop routine.

Oh lord no, I couldn't be bothered with all that, I mean, thinking up a second username? I haven't managed that in 20 years...

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

The_Lhc wrote:

If somebody is wrong about something then simply pointing that out is going to implicitly question their intelligence

 

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence.

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The_Lhc's picture
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RE: Hey The_Lhc

strapped for cash wrote:

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

Even if they are stupid? 

Yes.

I'm guessing you don't walk the streets screaming "you're ugly, you've got a fat *rse," or other insults that spring to mind as people pass by. They might be accurate observations, but what do you gain from this activity?

Again, I'd question the motivation behind any insulting or derisory remark. In saying "you're stupid," what you're really saying is "I'm smarter than you are."

I'm going to have to ask you now how often you think I actually insult people. I tell people when they're wrong about something, that isn't the same thing, I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've actually outright called someone an idiot, there's no point, you can't get away with it here.

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

BenLaw wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

If somebody is wrong about something then simply pointing that out is going to implicitly question their intelligence

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence.

Whatever, it ends up in the same place in the end, question their knowledge and most people will take it as questioning their intelligence. Same reason why so many people don't even understand the concept of constructive criticism, never mind be capable of accepting it.

BTW, how is it I'm the one that gets called a pedant when you're still here? Never understood that...

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

I haven't found The_Lhc insulting at all. I think he's just blunt, with a dry humour. I enjoy reading his posts.  Smile

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

I have, albeit only once. In that instance there was absolutely no provocation. The_Lhc's comments were about my writing style, rather than erroneous claims I'd made about hi-fi and AV. 

Again, I'd stress that this is a question of tone. Yes, it's possible to conclude that any corrective statement implies a lack of intelligence. It's also possible to phrase posts in a way that are unequivocally condescending (or at least seek to be so).

I'm interested to hear The_Lhc's definition of "constructive criticism." I work in a field where we welcome feedback, yet appreciate that there's a way of offering commentary that isn't simply point scoring.

Anyway, it's probably not worth a protracted debate, which I strongly suspect would reach an impasse. Ultimately this is a conversation about forum etiquette. Clearly there are different views on how we should conduct ourselves.

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

The_Lhc wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

If somebody is wrong about something then simply pointing that out is going to implicitly question their intelligence

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence.

Whatever, it ends up in the same place in the end, question their knowledge and most people will take it as questioning their intelligence. Same reason why so many people don't even understand the concept of constructive criticism, never mind be capable of accepting it.

BTW, how is it I'm the one that gets called a pedant when you're still here? Never understood that...

 

I think you were being accused of unnecessary rudeness rather than pedantry. Anyway, it's probably my charming, sunny disposition  Smile

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ID.
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RE: Hey The_Lhc

strapped for cash wrote:

ID. wrote:

Not sure that I've ever been on the receiving end, but if I was I'd want to check my facts and position because I don't think he does anything just to be contrarian.

So as an extension of that rationale it's fine to insult other posters, as long as there's some logic to your commentary?

As I stated earlier, it's possible to contribute to debate in a constructive way that's respectful others. Forum members have varying levels of expertise. Regular posters are usually armed with good knowledge, but some post seeking advice from members more heavily invested in AV technology and culture. Ill informed commentary may require correction, but this can be done without resorting to insult.

All taste cultures make rabid disctinctions. AV culture is no exception. It's not difficult to map a hierarchy of forum members. Assertions of authority that belittle others are efforts to stake one's claim to position. Roughly translated, the insulting contributor is saying "I am the expert here, acknowledge my superiority." Insulting comments quickly become tedious and little effort is needed to unpack the psychology.

That's the problem - it isn't easy to make a rule based on generalizations and extensions of the logic of a single statement. What some find to be an insult or provocative, others might think nothing of. He certainly doesn't sugarcoat his statements and many ppl online get very defensive or take things personally when someone questions their point or points out a mistake.

The issue of mapping a hierarchy is very interesting, but probably needs a different thread to this. It is something that is observed in all forums I frequent - whether it is due to time on the forum, the sheer volume of posts or aggresive proclamations of their expertise. Then we can start arguing that it might actually be due to the person on the receiving end, their ego and attempts to say "No, I am the expert here, acknowledge my supriority". But then it starts to become a bit like Ouroboros and I can feel my head disappearing up my own backside.

From personal experience, it's almost impossible to change the behaviour of others, but you can change how you react to and feel about that behaviour, and that can lead to a much happier existence. This is separate from the issue of whether one side is right or wrong, because justice or judgment on that will never happen, so learning to not give a EDITED is actually a pretty good move, particularly on the internet where, admit it, the battles aren't really worth fighting. Save your energy for the things that matter.

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

ID. wrote:

strapped for cash wrote:

ID. wrote:

Not sure that I've ever been on the receiving end, but if I was I'd want to check my facts and position because I don't think he does anything just to be contrarian.

So as an extension of that rationale it's fine to insult other posters, as long as there's some logic to your commentary?

As I stated earlier, it's possible to contribute to debate in a constructive way that's respectful others. Forum members have varying levels of expertise. Regular posters are usually armed with good knowledge, but some post seeking advice from members more heavily invested in AV technology and culture. Ill informed commentary may require correction, but this can be done without resorting to insult.

All taste cultures make rabid disctinctions. AV culture is no exception. It's not difficult to map a hierarchy of forum members. Assertions of authority that belittle others are efforts to stake one's claim to position. Roughly translated, the insulting contributor is saying "I am the expert here, acknowledge my superiority." Insulting comments quickly become tedious and little effort is needed to unpack the psychology.

That's the problem - it isn't easy to make a rule based on generalizations and extensions of the logic of a single statement. What some find to be an insult or provocative, others might think nothing of. He certainly doesn't sugarcoat his statements and many ppl online get very defensive or take things personally when someone questions their point or points out a mistake.

 

Except that if a third party is observing it ('that poster has just been very rude to that other poster') then it wouldn't be anything to do with being defensive about one's own posts. So I think you'll have to try a better justification. 

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ID.
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RE: Hey The_Lhc

BenLaw wrote:

Except that if a third party is observing it ('that poster has just been very rude to that other poster') then it wouldn't be anything to do with being defensive about one's own posts. So I think you'll have to try a better justification. 

I guess that goes to my point that different people are offended by different things at different levels. Just because one is a third party doesn't make one the ultimate arbiter of objective manners/tone/rudeness. It's a very nice sentiment that one might feel the need to be offended on behalf of another and step in as their white knight. Heck, I seem to be doing it for The_LHC here, despite the fact that (I assume he is) a grown man who more than holds his own.

So you find him rude? I don't. These are just opinions. On this we can both be right without it being contradictory. If it really bothers you you'll have a much easier time changing your own mindset rather than trying to convince another person, or the whole world, that the problem is with them not you. Even if you are right.

If you enjoy it, go ahead with long threads arguing the point. If it's stressing you, you have the option of not giving a Edited.

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

BenLaw wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

BenLaw wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

If somebody is wrong about something then simply pointing that out is going to implicitly question their intelligence

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence.

Whatever, it ends up in the same place in the end, question their knowledge and most people will take it as questioning their intelligence. Same reason why so many people don't even understand the concept of constructive criticism, never mind be capable of accepting it.

BTW, how is it I'm the one that gets called a pedant when you're still here? Never understood that...

I think you were being accused of unnecessary rudeness rather than pedantry.

I do get that all the time though, MajorFubar's post that set me off on my rant said I was being my usual pedantic self, which is what really annoyed me as I wasn't being pedantic in that thread (not by any definition I understand of the word anyway), so being accused of something by someone that doesn't even understand the meaning of the accusation is doubly irritating.

Quote:
Anyway, it's probably my charming, sunny disposition  Smile

Possibly, it might be the relentless nitpicking at the choice of words people use that don't really make any difference in the context of the sentence though, dunno. No offence, obviously, because I'm good like that now...

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RE: Hey The_Lhc

A gap in the market to exploit?...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-18456942

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