Hey there greedy I actually re-ran my Audyssey calibration this weekend after having moved a few things around a bit and the system then set my subwoofers at +3.5db. I haven't made any manual changes to that in the Denon because it sounded just fine. Remember I have two AW-12's but XT ofcourse calibrates them as one. They were both set to 1/4 on their own volumeknobs prior to the calibration. I'm curious to know why you ask that? Do you have any issues with your settings?
surely it makes more sense to increase the volume knob on the subs themselves and not boost the level within the receiver past 0db. Receivers are not designed to have a high quality sub amp, just line level
if you check about and from experience boosting the level sounds far worse than actually driving the amp itself harder - most amps sound thir best when driven harder - then factor in you are driving a 12" speaker which is a large speaker. You want more amp power, not a higher input volume less power, even if it means calibrating again.
In theory your suggestion makes perfect sense, and in some rooms with some set-up's I'm sure it is the ideal solution. Not in my case however (I have tried this back-and-forth several times, since subwoofers are often the tricky part). Plus, as I stated in several other posts, setting my AW-12's to 1/4 of max volume happen to equal the suggested 75db recommendation by Audyssey when the Denon/Onkyo calibration tool measures the output volume.
Simply put; the setting I described sounds best in my room. When trying the opposite (your suggestion) low frequenzies have a slight tendency to sound a tad bloated and boomy. I'll be trying your suggestion again however as soon as I get XT32 with my next receiver/processor.
The suggestion is the same for every room - I dont see how raising the volume on the receiver or raising the volume on the sub is any different?
If you send it a larger signal it amplifies less - if you send it a smaller signal it amplifies more to achieve the same output???
However you are double amplying - I have never once heard that to be a good thing and it makes no sense as you have volume controls on the sub - set the subs higher and let the auto calibration reduce the volume to hit the correct db.
I think you hear boomy bass as your subs are actually trying to produce the lowest notes and correct amount and your room doesnt cope as is normal and your auto cal setup has not done a good enough job to tame the modes. So turning down is the only option.
I am saying all this as have been there before - I have just got to the point where I can run my sub hard 6db ish hot and I am getting completely clean bass down to about 35htz where it does mode, however I am getting away with it as its mostly effects, rumble etc and cant do anything about it without compromising the rest
I have a sealed box 12" sub and it has to work bloody hard to hit the low notes - thats why it has a lot of power. You have exactly the same sub so the same will apply.
Obviously you are running 2 so that helps with the very low end boost - but they still need turning up to properly do their thing - i.e. give you clean controlled textured bass - the same as any speaker, but worse as its larger and it has to move either really fast or really slow to do what it needs to do. It makes more sense to reduce the level on the amp set it at -5db and boost the levels on the subs
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This is how i set my sub up as well, the volume is set to the 10 o'clock position and then the amp is reduced to - 6.5 ( my sub is close to the seating position).
The result is that a friend of mine came to visit recently and asked to listen to my system, and he could not tell where my sub was.
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ellisdj - like I said, I'm following Audysseys recommendation to set the subwoofer output volume to 75db (measured by the MultEQ microphone, although I've also used a sound pressure level meter to varify) and that happens to land at 1/4 the volume on the AW-12 in my room (both when using a Denon and Onkyo receiver with Audyssey). This might be because both subwoofers are placed in corners (front and back of the room) and thus the measured outbut is the result of a low frequency boost? Why the Audyssey calibration tool then sets the LFE volume in the receiver to +3.5db I cannot say. The end result sounds good to my ears though so at the moment I see no reason to experiment further at this point. However, having that said, things can always get better so I'm gonna take your recommendation under consideration when I get a new receiver/processor and Audyssey Pro kit.
Thanks for your input.
Current A/V equipment:
NUFORCE AVP-18 (processor/DAC) | NUFORCE MCH-300SEC7 (multichannel amplifier) | MONITOR AUDIO APEX (5.2 speaker system) | SAMSUNG LE-52B755 (tv) | DENON DBT-3313UD (disc transport) | NAIM UNITISERVE (music server) | SUPRA (cabling) | LOGITECH HARMONY 900 (universal remote) | NORDOST PULSAR POINTS (isolation feet)
ellisdj - like I said, I'm following Audysseys recommendation to set the subwoofer output volume to 75db (which MultEQ calculates, although I've also used a sound pressure level meter to varify) and that happens to land at about 1/4 the volume on the AW-12 in my room (both when using a Denon and Onkyo receiver with Audyssey). This might be because both subwoofers are placed in corners (front and back of the room) and thus the measured outbut volume is the result of a low frequency boost? Why the Audyssey calibration tool then sets the LFE volume in the receiver to +3.5db I cannot say. The end result sounds good to my ears though so at the moment I see no reason to experiment further at this point. However, having that said, things can always get better so I'm gonna take your recommendation under consideration when I get a new receiver/processor and Audyssey Pro kit.
Grateful for your input.
My sub is set to output 75db as well as with all my speakers.
Have you tried setting the sub volume higher, then running the Audyssey setup. This must reduce the amp output accordingly.
Hey there Michael (Happy New Year, by the way!)
Oh yes, I have indeed done that experiment a few times. I've previsouly set the subwoofers alot higher than 1/4, or 9 o'clock, and yes the Audyssey calibration tool will then reduce the LFE output from the receiver to somewhere below 0db. However, in those situations my subs then sound a bit bloated and boomy (a bit easier to localize) as compared to the setting I have now. The trick is that when I had the Onkyo TX-NR5010 for testing and ran the pre-calibration of the subs reaching 75db simply landed at 1/4 in my case, but if I rotated the volumeknob higher the 75db mark was not met and I suppose Audyssey then had to compensate for the mismatch. I didn't like the end result.
People , we are talking about own preference v.s reference deal.Audyssey taking control that all speakers will give 75db sound pressure level, when you turn your volume to -0.0db ( reference level or ethalonic level, how we say).I prefer what Audyssey does- and doesnt do any bass manual tweaking.Sub sound very good, sounds powerfull, hits fast.If you want experience real feeling like "in the movie"- turn volume knob to near reference level - nowadays movie sound engineers like to tune movie soundtrack in that way - that all it beauty experiences at high sound pressure levels - like in movie theather
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-0.0db??? My volume never really goes past -25.0 when watching Blu ray and that's with dynamic volume set to light, sometimes medium. I'd love to experience a Blu ray at "Referance level"
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Gosh I'm not sure I would. My receivers volume knob never goes below -32db, and in my room that's certainly loud enough. To me personally I enjoy a good balance in volume, I don't like my ears being bombarted by insane volume levels, just ain't enjoyable for me.
But that's where Audyssey's brilliant Dynamic EQ comes in!
If it wasn't for dynamic volume, I don't think the wife would allow any films, lol.
I've a question regarding subwoofer cable that I hope u can help with?
When I was buyin the cable for the sub I was advised from one of the local dealers that Chord didn't manufacture dedicated sub cables which I thought to be incorrect?? Anyways, i was sold the chord prodac. Just browsing the Chord website and I see they do infact have separate sub cables???
Am I missing out on anything not having a cable made for it's specific job or is the Chord Prodac ok???
Dynamic Volume is handy for certain situations and material but for me it's Dynamic EQ in Audyssey that makes all the difference. Every time I've tried a non-Audyssey equipped receiver (Pioneer, Anthem, Primare, Yamaha) that is the function I find myself instantly missing. Seems a rather unique function not offered by other solutions? Surround presence, detail projection, immersion and overall balance regardless of volume is truly engaging on Apex with Dynamic EQ. I find that switching it off makes the soundstage collapse and take on a flat and thin character; quite bizarre in comparison. One could argue that a quality machine sound be able to sound terrific without this kind of loudness processing, but I donno what it is - seems to me that Audyssey equipped machines are constructed to be used with Dynamic EQ engaged and not the other way round. For music material it might be a different story depending on playback mode. As always though, it's an issue of preference.
Maybe, that situation with volume is because ,i playing movies from my Dune media player.That machine play blu-ray.iso files downloaded from torrents.Blu-ray.iso is a copy of original blu-ray disc on the hard drive.Sound and video quality is the same as original disc.Dialog in the movie becomes very clear when i turn about 27-30db.Is it normal?Usually i watch movies about -20-27db.Dynamic volume set to: day
I would not worry too much about the volume, more worryingly, are you admitting to pirated films on this forum.
michael>we havent very big choice of blu-ray discs in Lithuania...I buy blu-rays also..
Happy New Year guys!!!
@ Ricky. Hope you had a great Christmas.
When you do get a processor/ receiver with XT32 it will EQ your subs much much better than MultiEQ XT as you prob already know. If you go down the pro route with XT32 even better. It ain't cheap but def worth it even with the Apex.
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Hey there ric71
Great to hear from you! All the best for the New Year!
I'm currently considering two options; continuing the integrated route and get a Denon AVR-4520 partnered with the matching DBT-3313 (will allow budget for tweaking accessories) or go the separates route with dedicated processor Marantz AV8801 and amplifier NuForce MCH-300C7 (no budget for tweaking accessories). I've demoed a couple of NuForce amplifiers and they are damn spectacular, not to mention compact, efficient and powerful. Could possibly blow the Apex through the roof!
I reckon since I've enjoyed my current Denon so much and everything else has failed to wow me, that both these implementations ought to please me (Marantz being Denons sibling). As usual I won't buy anything until I've tried em at home first (within the next few months). So far I've heard good things about both options. Additionally I will purchase Audyssey Pro Kit aswell, regardless.
BTW, still discovering amazing things with Apex through your Anthem Statement amp? Tell me more!
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