The Apex Club

I definitely agree with michael hoy about using identical speakers. That will guarantee perfect match and tonal quality. As good of a match as the A10 and A40 are with each other, having 3 x A10 or 3 x A40 in the front (or preferably all-round) will always be better than mixing them togehter. That goes for all kinds of speakers, so I the KEF LS50 would work perfectly in that configuration.

I think sometimes people underestimate (or have no experience of) the importance of absolute tonal match between every speaker in a multichannel set-up. Try to experience a demo of a system using exactly the same speaker in a 5.1 set-up and then after a while switch out the center to a different type and/or configuration and simply listen - even if the difference is minor you "break up" the illusion of a fully homogeneous soundfield that only identical speakers can create. Example: listen to the timber of voices as they pan across the front three channels; with identical speakers voices are kept completely cohesive, which is seldom the case when using a different configuration as the center. This is why mixing studios often use identical speakers for the entire system. I've been to demos like this and while casual listners may not notice, discernible listeners often will.

Granted, I myself am using a mix of A10 and A40, which I still consider a "compromise" in my case, but that is only because I cannot house or integrate any other solution at this time. Sadly.

If I could I would use 5 x A40 

Well what can I say but a very big thank you to all the users that took the time to comment on my post.

I’ve decided, I’m going to purchase the TV as I’ve already have the money, and then audition the Apex with some different amps to see how they sound.

Been looking for Apex dealer where I live and came across Sevenoaks Sound and Vision, has anybody got any feed back on what they are like to deal with?

They sell the TV I want so I’m planning on auditioning the speakers when I see them about the TV.

Christmas Jones> what tv do you want to buy?How many inch?

Hi Greedy, I’m looking at the Panasonic TX-L47WT50. I was looking at one of there plasma but cant really justify the running costs so I decided on an LED.

Looked at the Sony KDL-46HX853 but don’t like the monolith styling. So picked the Panasonic, They review well and I like Panasonic. Had one of there CRT’s for over 20 years and it’s still going well.

Looked at a larger screen, but after having loads of cardboard cut out were the TV is going to live we can’t really go bigger than 50”, but in there LED range they do 42”, 47” and a 55”, can’t accommodate the 55” so it’s the 47”

Hi Guys

I'm sure I already know the A10's will be better than the Kef Eggs but has anyone actually heard the difference between the two?

Hi Guys

I'm sure I already know the A10's will be better than the Kef Eggs but has anyone actually heard the difference between the two?

christmas jones>you worry about electricity costs?Dont worry, todays plasmas are not so power hungry..

for example measred by my friend power comsumption of his 42" panasonic plasma

1.When showing dark scenes, about 120w

2.when showing medium to more bright scenes about 180w

3.when showing white snow on full screen about 350w

So it's not much electricity.How many hours you watching in the day?First generation plasmas can consume 800w

Its personal preference, but when we are talking about video quality, i dont care about electricity

If you are talking about the KEF KHT3000 series I owned the 3005 system for a while before upgrading to Apex. While the KEF definitely is a good system for movies, Apex is way ahead not only in that area but for music aswell. Despire being a "traditional" speaker arrangement I also think the soundstage is larger, despite KEF's Uni-Q array. Apex offer a fuller, more vivid sound overall with even more detail. They do put demand on the surrounding electronics to really show what they can do, whereas the KEF's are more forgiving. That's my experience of the differences. Also, if you are interested in the Apex AW-12 subwoofer I think you'll find it more capable than any KHT equivalent.

One aspect I miss from the KEF's is the excellent pivoting tabletop feet that all satellites (incl the center) were attached to. It made angling the speakers when placed on top an a/v cabinet super easy. Apex don't quite have the same benefit with theirs, and primarily there is no such thing at all for the bigger A40. This is a mute issue if you use floorstands or wallmounting of course.

I actually have the KEF KHT 2005.3 system with the Kube 2 subwoofer which I think is a pretty good system for the money.

I then upgraded to a 7.1 system and bought some Kef floorstanders  - IQ50's from memory for the front L & R moving the egg speakers to the rear. Again, this works really well in my opinon. However, never satisfied and always looking to upgrade, I've just purchased an A40 for the centre. I was going to buy a Kef centre speaker but they were very big and very ugly!! The A40 is million times better looking than anything I was looking at and even better the sound is great too!

So, I'm thinking..... upgrade the surround speakers and surround back speaker from Kef Eggs to the A10's and maybe upgrade the front L&R at some point too! 

What you think??

Well, Mr Pinkney, if you had that KHT system and now own the A40 as a center an feel pleased with it I would simply suggest continuing to build up an Apex system. That would likely be a big step up. As you can read in my post on top of this page about using identical speakers all-round I would simply suggest you get additional A40's (if possible) or the A10's. Just be careful not to mix different types of speakers or brands, as that is something I would never ever recommend (again, see post above). You may find the Apex a tad lightweight with stereo music compared to your current floorstanders, but hopefully if you get the AW-12 subwoofer it will complement nicely. I always play music in multi-channel mode with my Apex as I find that more satisfying.

Again, I'm really wondering why people insist on buying an overpriced subwoofer when there is so much more that can be had for the same price?

Any proper sub can be matched to a sub sat system, so why would you want to pay +1000€ (at least where I live) for something that only performs up to the level of a proper 600€ sub from a company that only builds subs?

I honestly don't understand...

Hello there gunny I fully respect your choice of a different brand of subwoofer to complement your Apex speakers. But perhaps you should consider the possibility that on top of everything else some of us may also want matching aesthetics when building a complete system. The AW-12 together with the similarly designed A10/A40 create an awesome looking AND sounding solution. 

I personally think it's one of the better subwoofers I've heard at this pricepoint and it interacts very well within my room. I don't necessarily agree with your earlier statement made elsewhere that there is no such thing as a matching sub, and that any proper sub will do just fine. I've heard plenty of similar systems with ill-matched subwoofers that ruin the experience. I believe sub/sat systems are more sensitive to this because of the amount of reliance put on the subwoofer. I also know for a fact that Monitor Audio worked meticulously at the blend and seamless integration between the satellites and AW-12. Many retailers and owners I trust could probably verify the result of that.

Please note that I'm not in any way suggesting that no other brand of subwoofer could possibly work. But in this context I believe I've made my point. Oh, by the way; I got two AW-12's (one in front, one in the rear) and for me it's a killer combo in every way. It's a good thing you are happy with your choice though, and of course something similar could well for someone else too.

Hey Rickydeg. I do understand that aesthetics can play a role, specifically if you're running the Apex without the front grills.

But other than that I don't agree and believe the "meticulouse and seamless integration between the sats and the AW-12" is just marketing talk to justify the high cost.

Any system with a proper sub can be made to sound bad because of room acoustics or wrong settings, so the fact that you've heard sub sats systems with ill-matched subs is in my eyes and opinion down to the fact that the sub was not properly placed / adjusted or just down to a rubbish sub.

This can equally be the case with the AW-12. A sub only provides sound up until 80 or so Hz.

It is a mono channel so panning of the sound will not affect its output, as low frequencies are omnidirectional (well, you make it more directional by having 2 subs, but that's something else).

Therefore there is no such thing as having a matching sub, it is just a matter of ensuring the the cross-overs are properly set, the AV amp is set up as it should and the room acoustics are under control (either by means of room treatement or devices such as an anti-mode). 

All high performance set ups with equipement costly 10x that of our Apex's use subs from well know sub manufacturers such as REL, BK, KK, ... Surely if there would be such a thing as a tonally matched sub, those guys would choose a sub from the range / manufacturer of their speakers? Have a look at: http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers-tactile-transducers/

A lot of interesting discussions on all different types of subs.

I'm not trying to start a fight  or trying to justify my own choices; if you are happy with your set up and I'm with mine that's all that matters, but it certainly is worth mentioning to newcomers that still have to spend their well earned money, that there are alternatives to the (very) expensive AW-12 sub, however capable it might be. 

In other words gunny, we can agree to disagree!

Indeed!