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The Apex Club

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greedy's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 105
RE: The Apex Club

Ricky>After i buy Electras- it will be not soon( or maybe after a month ,if i win lottery), i will place my Apex set to my bedroom coolHope my wife will like my idea hello or goodbye I havent heard any sub/sat system that can outperform Apex..Electras are brilliant with Aire components http://www.ayre.com/products.htm , but they are expensive too...

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Monitor audio Apex5.1, Denon AVR-4311, Dune SmartHD1,Playstation3(FATboy), Synology ds411+II(ultrasilent, fans modificated by me),Chord Odyssey2 cables. will buy panasonic plasma wowCool

Christmas Jones's picture
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RE: The Apex Club

Wow what a thread, interesting reading. I’m planning a mayor upgrade of my complete AV setup and was looking at a set of B&W M1’s with the ASW608 or PV1D sub and either the Pioneer SC-LX56 or Onkyo TX-NR818 amp running them.

 

But after reading most of the 77 pages of this massive thread I’m now starting to wonder if the Apex A10’s would be a better speaker, with a AW12 sub.

 

I was going to go with the Pioneer but after reading how RickyDeg got on auctioning the amps, I’m now wondering if the Onkyo would be better bet, and a bit cheaper.

 

Just like to say great thread.

RickyDeg's picture
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Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 647
RE: The Apex Club

Christmas Jones wrote:

 

Wow what a thread, interesting reading. I’m planning a mayor upgrade of my complete AV setup and was looking at a set of B&W M1’s with the ASW608 or PV1D sub and either the Pioneer SC-LX56 or Onkyo TX-NR818 amp running them.

But after reading most of the 77 pages of this massive thread I’m now starting to wonder if the Apex A10’s would be a better speaker, with a AW12 sub.

I was going to go with the Pioneer but after reading how RickyDeg got on auctioning the amps, I’m now wondering if the Onkyo would be better bet, and a bit cheaper.

Just like to say great thread.

 

Hey Christmas Jones Smile  Welcome to the thread! Hope you'll end up also joining the club! 

Personally I can't say anything about the B&W's as I've yet to hear them, let alone ever done any kind of comparison. But I know people who have and the majority voted Apex as their favorite of the two. As always you'll never know what suits you and your preferences unless you try them out first, hopefully in your own home surroundings (although that is often tricky with speaker packages). I'll just advice you to demo, demo and demo again if possible. But Apex do kinda rock!

If Onkyo and Pioneer are your primary choices I would pick the former of the two mostly cause I favour Audyssey. That's not to say other systems like MCACC, YPAO or ARC can't do great things - they just didn't suit my personal taste or work well in my room. As you may have already seen throughout the thread I've tested the TX-NR5009 and the 5010 and were mighty impressed by their engrossing and forceful reproduction of movie soundtracks, but less so for music. I listen to 50/50, so both gotta 'pop' in order for me to invest. For you it might be different.

In terms of Audyssey and MCACC, they are two different animals when it comes to calibration and EQ. Just know that you may have to prepare to do some heavy manual tweaking of the EQ in Pioneers MCACC in case the automated one doesn't float your boat (natually you don't have to use it at all if you don't want to). Despite my efforts with both the SC-LX83 and 85 I never managed to make them sing with Apex in my room so I sadly had to ditch em. But lots of folks swear by MCACC and enjoy Pioneer with Apex. There is not much tweaking possible in Audyssey, but I've never felt like I've needed that either. And Dynamic EQ (included in Audyssey) is a feature I find myself missing with every other system I've tested and in this context that feature seems rather unique. 

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Current A/V equipment:

NUFORCE AVP-18 (processor/DAC) | NUFORCE MCH-300SEC7 (multichannel amplifier) | MONITOR AUDIO APEX (5.2 speaker system) | SAMSUNG LE-52B755 (tv) | DENON DBT-3313UD (disc transport) | NAIM UNITISERVE (music server) | SUPRA (cabling) | LOGITECH HARMONY 900 (universal remote) | NORDOST PULSAR POINTS (isolation feet)

greedy's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 105
RE: The Apex Club

Christmas Jones> Try Apex and decide :)If comparing between Apex and Bowers sat/sub system , first of all, look at the center channel.Apex center is superior in my opinion, its very important, because its a main channel in movies soundrack.Second thing is AW-12 is a great sub.Very good integration between sub and satelites.I recommend you to buy receiver with MULTEQXT32, and buy higher class receiver like Denon AVR-4520.OR AVR-4311 you may find now , at a very good price..I'm afraid of Onkyo, because i heard in the forums, and not only in the forums, that Onkyo nowadays has quality issues.Some time ago Onkyo recalled many receivers.But that only my personal opinion.. shhh

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Monitor audio Apex5.1, Denon AVR-4311, Dune SmartHD1,Playstation3(FATboy), Synology ds411+II(ultrasilent, fans modificated by me),Chord Odyssey2 cables. will buy panasonic plasma wowCool

michael hoy's picture
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Joined: 6 Oct 2008
Posts: 1548
RE: The Apex Club

Christmas Jones wrote:

 

Wow what a thread, interesting reading. I’m planning a mayor upgrade of my complete AV setup and was looking at a set of B&W M1’s with the ASW608 or PV1D sub and either the Pioneer SC-LX56 or Onkyo TX-NR818 amp running them.

 

But after reading most of the 77 pages of this massive thread I’m now starting to wonder if the Apex A10’s would be a better speaker, with a AW12 sub.

 

I was going to go with the Pioneer but after reading how RickyDeg got on auctioning the amps, I’m now wondering if the Onkyo would be better bet, and a bit cheaper.

 

Just like to say great thread.

 

Hi and welcome,

The Apex are without doubt an amazing sub sat combination, there is alot of debate on here about the vertues of Denon with XT32 and Pioneer's MCACC.

I have had a Denon previously and currently have a Pioneer, if you want the amp to complete the setup for you and you do not want to tweak further buy the Onkyo because it is cheaper.

If however you like to get your hands dirty and reap the rewards buy the Pioneer, the sound is very clear and engaging.

I personally would not just let any amp make all the settings and not then tweak until I am completely happy.

Before I purchased the Apex, I demoed them with a Onkyo and a Arcam AVR 500. The Onkyo was good but the Arcam was in a different league, once I had purchased the Apex I had a Pioneer LX72 on home demo which gave me food for thought and ended up with the LX85.

The Apex / Pioneer combo works very well with both movies and music.

Have a demo if possible of the Onkyo, Denon and Pioneer, but make sure the dealer does calibrate the amps correctly or you may well be disapointed with the demo.

All the best in your choice.

 

__________________

AV System -  Panasonic 42VT30 ¦ MA Apex 5.1- 4xA10 1xA40+ AW-12 Sub ¦ Van Damme UP LCOFC Speaker Cable ¦ Pioneer SC-LX85 ¦ OPPO 95 ¦ Mark Grant G1500HD Precision audio cable ¦ Sky+ HD(1TB) ¦ Chord Active HDMI ¦ Furutech Mains Cables ¦ Belkin PF50 mains conditioner.

Bedroom - Sony KDL-40W2000 + Archos 7 streaming from Windows Home Server 2011, Altec Lansing inAir 5000.

Dining Room - Sonos S5.

Music - HP Proliant Server running WHS 2011 ¦ streaming FLAC to Sonos ZP90 and OPPO 95 via SC-LX85.

Hi Fi - Cyrus 8 XPd QX amp ¦ Cyrus PSX-R power supply acting as Pre Amp ¦ Quad 909 Power Amp ¦ Speakers - Spendor A3 ¦ Logitech Squeezebox Touch upgrade by Fidelity Audio ¦ power supply upgrade by Mains Cables R Us ¦ Furutech Mains Cables ¦ Power Plant Premier mains regenerator.

Controlled by – iPad2 and Harmony 1100.

 

stigi's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
RE: The Apex Club

There is no doubts Apex are a great speaker for there size in same price range have a good look at the Kef Ls 50's 5x Ls 50's are around the £3k little more expensive than Apex but Wow and I mean Wow you got to here them there a little bigger than Apex but the sounds unbeliable,there is plenty info and reveiews I would defiantly have a look  beauty, eh

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stigi's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2012
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RE: The Apex Club

There is no doubts Apex are a great speaker for there size in same price range have a good look at the Kef Ls 50's 5x Ls 50's are around the £3k little more expensive than Apex but Wow and I mean Wow you got to here them there a little bigger than Apex but the sounds unbeliable,there is plenty info and reveiews I would defiantly have a look  beauty, eh

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Samsung Le46f LcdTv ,Apple Tv ,Sky Hd 1Tb,Apple Ipad,Apple Mac pro,Apple Desktop.Bose QuiteComfort 15 Headphones.

paulbroke's picture
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Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 36
RE: The Apex Club

Hi Everyone,

Banana Plugs or Bare Wire cable connection, which is the best performance for us? (I use bare wire connection, will this cause the oxidation problem and poor sound quality)?

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Tv : Panasonic 65VX300 Plasma - AV Receiver: Pioneer SC-LX85 - Speakers: Monitor Audio Apex 7.1 - BD Player: Oppo BDP-103 - Speaker Cables: Chord Carnival Silver Screen - Rack: HiFi Racks Podium XL

RickyDeg's picture
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Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 647
RE: The Apex Club

paulbroke wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Banana Plugs or Bare Wire cable connection, which is the best performance for us? (I use bare wire connection, will this cause the oxidation problem and poor sound quality)?

Without any doubt - use banana or spade connection in both ends (amp & speaker), if possible. That more than often will secure a tight fit for best possible signal transfer + the risk of oxidation is mute.

__________________

Current A/V equipment:

NUFORCE AVP-18 (processor/DAC) | NUFORCE MCH-300SEC7 (multichannel amplifier) | MONITOR AUDIO APEX (5.2 speaker system) | SAMSUNG LE-52B755 (tv) | DENON DBT-3313UD (disc transport) | NAIM UNITISERVE (music server) | SUPRA (cabling) | LOGITECH HARMONY 900 (universal remote) | NORDOST PULSAR POINTS (isolation feet)

paulbroke's picture
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Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 36
RE: The Apex Club

Thanks RickyDeg

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Tv : Panasonic 65VX300 Plasma - AV Receiver: Pioneer SC-LX85 - Speakers: Monitor Audio Apex 7.1 - BD Player: Oppo BDP-103 - Speaker Cables: Chord Carnival Silver Screen - Rack: HiFi Racks Podium XL

michael hoy's picture
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Joined: 6 Oct 2008
Posts: 1548
RE: The Apex Club

paulbroke wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Banana Plugs or Bare Wire cable connection, which is the best performance for us? (I use bare wire connection, will this cause the oxidation problem and poor sound quality)?

+1 on the banana plugs.

__________________

AV System -  Panasonic 42VT30 ¦ MA Apex 5.1- 4xA10 1xA40+ AW-12 Sub ¦ Van Damme UP LCOFC Speaker Cable ¦ Pioneer SC-LX85 ¦ OPPO 95 ¦ Mark Grant G1500HD Precision audio cable ¦ Sky+ HD(1TB) ¦ Chord Active HDMI ¦ Furutech Mains Cables ¦ Belkin PF50 mains conditioner.

Bedroom - Sony KDL-40W2000 + Archos 7 streaming from Windows Home Server 2011, Altec Lansing inAir 5000.

Dining Room - Sonos S5.

Music - HP Proliant Server running WHS 2011 ¦ streaming FLAC to Sonos ZP90 and OPPO 95 via SC-LX85.

Hi Fi - Cyrus 8 XPd QX amp ¦ Cyrus PSX-R power supply acting as Pre Amp ¦ Quad 909 Power Amp ¦ Speakers - Spendor A3 ¦ Logitech Squeezebox Touch upgrade by Fidelity Audio ¦ power supply upgrade by Mains Cables R Us ¦ Furutech Mains Cables ¦ Power Plant Premier mains regenerator.

Controlled by – iPad2 and Harmony 1100.

 

greedy's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 105
RE: The Apex Club

Stigi> if Kef,s - i better buy Kef r100 5.1 package.In my opinion Kef ls 50 is for hi-fi mini monitor use.It's  not for home theater..It doesnt have matching centre speaker which is the main thing in home theather setup.I suggest think about that..Another thing you can buy if dont want floorstanders is Monitor audio gx50 or gx100 with matching center- i like that speaker very much.. http://www.hometheater.com/content/monitor-audio-gold-gx50-speaker-system

Michael> about tweaking setting, that are made by calibration system.It depends on what user likes..But its preference vs reference deal.I done automatic Audyssey calibration and i`m completely happy with that.I think system must reproduce soundtrack this way, like films sound engineer created.Can you tell what kind of manuall tweaking you done?What you dont like in your auto-calibration?In which ranges, what you changed?

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Monitor audio Apex5.1, Denon AVR-4311, Dune SmartHD1,Playstation3(FATboy), Synology ds411+II(ultrasilent, fans modificated by me),Chord Odyssey2 cables. will buy panasonic plasma wowCool

michael hoy's picture
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Joined: 6 Oct 2008
Posts: 1548
RE: The Apex Club

Greedy,

You can use a single LS50 as the centre, it would give a perfect match and tonal quality across the front soundstage.

Check the LS50 thread here.

As far as the Pioneer tweaking is concerened, it is initially about producing the flat reponse curve that the MCACC allows you to export as a graph and work out what needs changing.

Hard surfaces (wooden floors, glass coffee tables and walls) all create reflections and these need to be ironed out.

The only room correction software I have not tried is the ARC built into the Anthem amps, but both the Pioneer and the Denon I have had experience with.

 

__________________

AV System -  Panasonic 42VT30 ¦ MA Apex 5.1- 4xA10 1xA40+ AW-12 Sub ¦ Van Damme UP LCOFC Speaker Cable ¦ Pioneer SC-LX85 ¦ OPPO 95 ¦ Mark Grant G1500HD Precision audio cable ¦ Sky+ HD(1TB) ¦ Chord Active HDMI ¦ Furutech Mains Cables ¦ Belkin PF50 mains conditioner.

Bedroom - Sony KDL-40W2000 + Archos 7 streaming from Windows Home Server 2011, Altec Lansing inAir 5000.

Dining Room - Sonos S5.

Music - HP Proliant Server running WHS 2011 ¦ streaming FLAC to Sonos ZP90 and OPPO 95 via SC-LX85.

Hi Fi - Cyrus 8 XPd QX amp ¦ Cyrus PSX-R power supply acting as Pre Amp ¦ Quad 909 Power Amp ¦ Speakers - Spendor A3 ¦ Logitech Squeezebox Touch upgrade by Fidelity Audio ¦ power supply upgrade by Mains Cables R Us ¦ Furutech Mains Cables ¦ Power Plant Premier mains regenerator.

Controlled by – iPad2 and Harmony 1100.

 

greedy's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 105
RE: The Apex Club

michael> yes, we can use it as a center..it`s maybe only my personal preference- dont like that type use as a center...

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Monitor audio Apex5.1, Denon AVR-4311, Dune SmartHD1,Playstation3(FATboy), Synology ds411+II(ultrasilent, fans modificated by me),Chord Odyssey2 cables. will buy panasonic plasma wowCool

gunny's picture
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Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 25
RE: The Apex Club

Christmas Jones wrote:

 

Wow what a thread, interesting reading. I’m planning a mayor upgrade of my complete AV setup and was looking at a set of B&W M1’s with the ASW608 or PV1D sub and either the Pioneer SC-LX56 or Onkyo TX-NR818 amp running them.

 

But after reading most of the 77 pages of this massive thread I’m now starting to wonder if the Apex A10’s would be a better speaker, with a AW12 sub.

 

Hi Christmas,

I was in the exact same situation as you are with regards to speaker choice. I was coming from B&W DM-603 S3's so assumed that the B&W M-1 package would be my best bet. After having a first demo with them I found them to be a bit lacking; something was missing.

After a lot of online reading I heared about the Apex series and found a dealer that had both the old M-1's, the new M-1's and the Apex series.

I auditioned all 3 standalone (so without sub) to hear what they were capable of when being fed with some nice songs, and both myself AND THE WIFE (!!!) were blown away by the difference between the M-1's and the Apex's. The Apex range is much more transparant and has a wider sound stage, along with the ability to go lower compared to the M-1's.

Needless to say that the choice was an easy one after that.

 

One word on the choice of the sub.

I tend to disagree with most people here when it comes to choosing a sub to go along with the Apex.

There is no such thing as a matching sub, any proper sub will do just fine as long as it is adjusted properly to take over when the Apex's start to struggle (so low freq). In my eyes (and this is a very big IMO) the AW-12, although a very capable sub, is way overpriced. For that kind of money you can buy a sub that will run circles round the AW-12 and then some.

After having reviewed a full Apex set with the AW-12 sub, I opted to buy the BK XXLS400 sub. I can honestly say that this sub is at least the equal of the AW-12, at a far lesser cost! Which means more money that you can spend on a proper AV amp (remember, Apex LOVES power, so take the extra money you saved on the sub and spend it on a proper amp).

One of the good things about the BK subs is that they come in a very wide range of finishes (both matt and gloss color or wood finish) and you can even choose between Front firing or down firing, which is a good thing is the wife isn't very keen on having a woofer in plain sight.

We have the Down firing flavour and the wife has already adopted it to put a nice lamp, plant or whatever on top of it (a customer made glass plate ensures that there's no damage to the top when putting things on top).

 

Just my 2 cents; of course demoing is very important as you might actually like the new B&W over the Apex (the new M-1's I have to say are a major improvement over the old ones).