The Apex Club

Hi RickyDeg

At a similar price try and also have a listen to Audiolab's new 8200AP/8200xX7. The 8200AP/8200X7 is excellent in its own right and i've found the 8200AP/8200X7 combination also works a treat with Apex speakers Audiolab's no frills design approach with the 8200AP/8200X7 combination has paid of big time. The 8200AP/8200X7 combination just performs and done so superbly  

As i've often said. Keep it simple. Simple is best. Looks like Audiolab were paying attention

Anyway nice one Audiolab

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?lang=En&Tab2=8200AP

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?lang=En&Tab2=8200X7

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Which speaker cable termination type must be used with Apex?i quess it must be "spade"?or "banana".Now my speakers are connected simple - i just put speaker cable to the terminal and screw that.

RickyDeg> can you say on what your a10 are standing?i see you not using "table top" stand?Do you like tx-nr5009?

Bare wire or banana plugs will be OK.

Like Michael Hoy mentioned above; both spade and banana will work with A10. I am myself going to purchase new cables with high quality banana connections as I don't wish to use bare wire any longer. The bigger A40 is a bit tricky to use with bare wire and/or spades since the terminal is recessed into the speaker cabinet which makes it a bit tight.

On my three front speakers A10 + A40 I am not using the supplied feet since I don't like the way they look. I have instead placed flat isolation feet by Valhalla Technology directly under each, and they work great. They have several models in the range.

http://www.valhalla-technology.dk/

Sadly I cannot aim my speakers upwards with this solution like the supplied feet would allow, but it doesn't seem to matter much as the sound is still great. 

In terms of Onkyo TX-NR5009, I'm still evaluating it with Apex. Will write more when done 

Come on Ricky we are dying to know your findings!!!!

Hey Rick! Thanks for the tip! I saw your previous post elsewhere on these a while ago and I did have a look at them. The processor reminds me of the old TAG McLaren AVR32 I use to own in 1999-2001. It was great back then. I find it funny though that this Audiolab model does not have any HD-decoders built in, I must say. I'm not too keen of the idea of not being able to feed it HD via bitstream and have it un-zip and decode the signal. 

I do agree with you that simplicity is best. If I had it my way all receivers/amps I've tested lately could do with a lot less features, bells & whistles. They are so crammed with stuff I'll never use. I would wish for concentration on pure performance. 

What can you say in detail about the actual sound on Audiolab with Apex? That is of course the most interesting aspect.

HAHA! I'm loving the fact that "you are all dying to know"

In time, rest assured 

Thanks  Michael Hoy and RickyDeg for the answers about connection

The hunt to find a replacement for my trusty Denon AVR-3808A continues with the Onkyo TX-N5009 to tackle the Apex. It proved to be somewhat of a mixed experience, though overall a positive one. I'll get right down to how it performs. (PS! the following are highly personal opinions)

Movies

I'll begin with the positive aspects. Reproduction of movie soundtracks through Apex is an absolute thrill with this machine, no question about it. After my numerous disappointments with offerings from Pioneer, Anthem and Primare it didn't take more than a few minutes into the blu-ray of "Hellboy" to realise I was in for a treat. With well-crafted soundtracks Onkyo serves up a generous soundstage with great transparency and spaciousness, even with "just" my 5.2 set-up. Watching movies with Onkyo at the helm quickly proved to be one of the most immersive and dynamic experiences I've yet to have with the Apex (I dare not imagine a full 9.2 set-up!). And this is without any DSP-enhancement, mind you. The exciting nature and liveliness when watching movies is commendable and grabs your attention. The sound is bold and full in all channels, but never overblown. There is delicate detail retrieval and a fine amount of spatiality. Presentation of dialogue is realistic and clearly projected into the room, never is it drowned out by the surrounding action. I reckon much of this is due to the calibration and measurements done by the advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32, and of course utilizing Dynamic EQ ontop of that. The result is far and above what I ever managed to get with Pioneer's calibration tool MCACC or Anthem's much-praised ARC. There's just no question.

Most Apex owners know the integration between these speakers (including the subwoofer) is amazing to begin with, and Onkyo enhances that even further – there is nearly a hint of disruption to be found anywhere in the soundfield. Coherent is the word. I was also impressed by the way my pair of AW-12 subwoofers were kept under strict control, thanks to the dual subwoofer calibration and filtering. I also believe the DAC's and jitter-cleaning technology in this machine make a difference. Overall it feels like the Onkyo has a fairly neutral character with very little 'colouring' of the sound, which suit Apex just fine, at least with movies. There is a decent amount of power on tap, more so than my Denon, as large dynamic swings are effortlessly portrayed with the kind of smoothness that makes you wanna turn up the volume (and yes, the unit gets very hot). The toroidal transformer obviously ensure constant quality of power is fed to the speakers, and demanding as they are Apex naturally makes the most of that. Thankfully I noticed no sign of listening fatigue or distortion.

Though obviously impressed I didn't feel the differences (or improvements) between my current Denon and this Onkyo were hugely significant, but the benefits are definitely there and might prove difficult to live without. In some ways it brought new life to the Apex. I'm not surprised that What HiFi (among others) have crowned this jewel the best of the best in terms of A/V receivers. It has indeed made an impression on me. 

Music

Now to the unfortunate negatives. Firstly; to my ears there seems to be a great deal of musicality missing here. It's a little odd after such a thrillride with movies to find music reproduction a bit 'stale' and uninspiring. Perhaps it's because some of that warmth I'm accustomed to from Denon is not evident here? The AVR-3808 might not be a champ with music but for a receiver it's quite decent most of the time. Secondly; plain 2-channel reproduction bore me these days and with a sub/sat system I need to make the music fill my entire listeningroom. As good as the Apex are a pair of A10's alone cannot compete with the soundstage created by a pair of full-blown floorstanding speakers. Therefore an all-channel-stereo mode is a must. But in order for a such a DSP-mode to sound good in my room it needs to be tweakable. Sadly Onkyo have omitted the possibility of saving independent speaker levels per source or listening mode. For example; I might want to manually adjust the level of specific channels to find a harmonious balance. Not possible. Onkyo seem to only allow one general level setting that apply to all sources and all listening modes regardless. I find this puzzling when other brands (e.g. Denon) offer that flexibility. I mean, when watching TV or playing video games one might also prefer to save different level settings. As it stands, Onkyo's all-channel-stereo mode comes off as uneven and virtually unlistenable to me. Also, the strict control of the subwoofers I found so impressive with movies seemed to almost vanish. Suddenly bass was bloated and overpowering. Sadly no other mode on offer impressed me either (I'm picky with this, yes). 

Conclusion

Despite the Onkyo being so spectacular with movies it's not a complete overhaul or revolution compared to the capable Denon, and since it seems I might suffer with music through this receiver it may not be an all-round enjoyable investment. Its kind of irritating when I thought I'd finally gotten my hands on an ideal partner for the Apex. I know we can't have it all in a receiver like this but I refuse to compromise on certain issues. I play music half of the time so it's important to be equally thrilled. If I cared only for watching movies and listening to music in plain 2-channel this might be a no-brainer. For some people this receiver would fit the bill perfectly and I'm sure they would also find its music reproduction excellent. The Onkyo is still a doubtlessly terrific partner with Apex and bring out good things from them. Just not in every aspect as far as I'm concerned. I wish Onkyo could cut down on the massive amount of excessive features they stuff into their receivers and concentrate purely on performance with flexible settings in every regard. However, the Onkyo is not out of the equation, I still might switch to it. Maybe there are ways to adjust or get around the things I felt were lacking so I can also enjoy music the way I want to.

I just need to check out a few other alternatives first  

Hi Ricky,

Thanks for posting your findings.

I bet it was a kick in the teeth after sounding so good with the movies and then failing on the music side.

Anything else up your sleeve to try.

All the best.

Respect to RickyDeg, he is doing a great job here, very interesting to read his reviews( more interesting than whathifi) I think RickyDeg you will like Denon avr-4311 with music and movies:)I think NAD receivers are super, but they dont have multeqxt32..

Big THANK YOU's to Michael Hoy and Greedy for taking the time to read 

Next I'm interested in possibly checking out offerings from Rotel, Yamaha, NAD or try a separates solution, though not sure which processor and multichannel amp to go for. I just know none of the beforementioned have Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which might be problematic since it's obvious I like how it makes Apex perform. Also, Denon have new top-of-the-line receivers coming up...

You give an interesting read with your opinions on this post.

I saw something the other day about a new top end Denon, but cannot find it now.

I found that new Denon will be avr-4520  http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1220/avr4520/avr-4520.asp