ellisdj - thanks!
I've read up on lots of that stuff you mentioned. However, the problems of getting rid of first reflection in my room lay in the fact that I only have one sidewall, to the right of the room ('open architecture type' apartment) and on that wall sits a narrow window that happens to be in the "mirror-spot" of the front & rear right channel. And I don't want to cover that window over with panels. Then on the rear wall behind the sofa are more windows. Looks nice but nightmarish from an acoustic standpoint, hehe.
My only real option, from my point of view, is treatment on the front wall (behind the TV and front trio of speakers) and possibly in the ceiling. But whether that would actually yield worthwhile improvements to justify the trouble or just end up looking really nasty is anybodys guess. So far the only room EQ system that has helped to improve things for me has been Audyssey.
The panels I have considered however come from this company - ever heard of these? www.sofsci.com
Current A/V equipment:
NUFORCE AVP-18 (processor/DAC) | NUFORCE MCH-300SEC7 (multichannel amplifier) | MONITOR AUDIO APEX (5.2 speaker system) | SAMSUNG LE-52B755 (tv) | DENON DBT-3313UD (disc transport) | NAIM UNITISERVE (music server) | SUPRA (cabling) | LOGITECH HARMONY 900 (universal remote) | NORDOST PULSAR POINTS (isolation feet)
Hi Ricky looking at that pic doesnt tell the full story - looking at your other pics you have some options available to you.
For starters your right hand wall -depending on where the reflection points are you behind the lamp and under the window will work
You could potentially depending on the size have one panel going horizontal from behind your lamp under the window - depending the distance you sit away that one panel would cover the reflections for all your front 3 speakers.
The speaker height is below your window so that would work I think, i.e the left speaker reflection point on the right wall will fall under the window. A nice picture or just a plain colour in the room wouldnt be a terrible thing either or a mixture to look nice
Then I would put something simialr up on the left wall as best I can if it is under 10 feet away - depending on what is there kitchen, doors etc?
Glass is a nightmare - but you could replace your light drapes with thick heavy (heavy as possible) duty curtains - stylish ones - that will help with the rear reflections / help keep the room warm and darker for daytime viewing. So that would be a triple benefit for that change.
It probably is already but you need to make sure your rug is generously covering where the floor reflection points are.
A blind over the smaller window may help a bit - I have been lookign for domestic acoustic absoprtion blinds - I could really do with some but they are hard to get. Pleated blinds I have read are supposed to be the next best thing - not sure how accurate that is
Then you can do a cloud on the ceiling but that is difficult to get to look nice.
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There is no left wall to speak of, there is an empty space to the left of the livingroom, and then comes a dining section and the kitchen, and it's pretty far off. I was thinking about your suggestions and going by other recommendations I've gotten I might consider adding vertical panels placed a little something like what I picture below (please forgive the primitive drawing technique). Three on the front wall, and two on the right wall, between the corner and the narrow sidewindow. I'd definitely wanna use similar looking panels, aesthetics are extremely important here, and making them "melt" into the surroundings would be essential (damn these compromises! hehe).
Depending how far off the dining area is and the angle etc you might want a/ some panels in there to stop the reflection - dont right that rea off it will be affecting things I would bet.
Looking at your panels going left to right and saying A B C D and E
B is pointless - it wont do anything
A and C will give some benefit if they are thick enough 4inchs with a big air gap 4inchs ideally as well. Going by Etan Winner from Realtraps the front wall will only absorb bass and for bass thick with air gap is needed.
D and E are the first reflection areas - D where it is is useless, E I would guess is in the middle of the area but might miss the speakers reflection points - it all needs checking with a mirror
Thanks alot ellisdj - I appreciate your input!
The idea of all those panels placed in that manner was primarily for aesthetic reasons. Looking at panels called 'Hertz' and 'Superchunk' over at www.sofsci.com/panels they clearly have air gaps and seem to know what they are doing. Still feels as if I do proceed with room treatments I’ll probably end up hiring experts anyway because I just don’t trust myself (or online recommendations) enough in this area and fear it’s gonna end up looking (and sounding) less than ideal. Thank you regardless!
Sorry again to the OP for steering off topic!
I am certianly no expert but there is such general consensus in the way of treating a room first reflection that its pretty straight forward
Thanks guys for the suggestions - given me food for thought.
Room re-design was very interesting, but wifey might have something to say about the odd wallpaper!
.....and David from Frank Harvey, I had a look at the Oppo 105 specs. Sky HD connected via optical, HTPC into the HDMI or asynchronous USB and Robert's your mother's brother. Plus I can try the direct link to the 5r as an option against the AV32. Like it. Get your demo room ready, I'll be coming from Solihull.
Oppo 105, Tag Mclaren 100*5r, Monitor Audio 20se and Gold surrounds, Samsung UE55D8000, Sky HD, Custom HTPC, Pinnacle Folio (No? Look that iron up!)
More than welcome - but do call in advance though just in case someone loans the 105! I'll need to familiarise myself with the setup too...
David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry
Vinyl now available in store!
I'm not sure of the upper limits of its EQ but I know that it is totally customisable,i.e. you can set the level of the frequency it will EQ.
I am a huge believer in room EQ. I agree that a dedicated room should be treated but for the likes of me who only has a sitting room,room EQ is priceless. My present system which can be seen in my sig beats my previous £20k set up that consisted of a Lexicon DC2 fully loaded front end with a high end Micromega transport, silly cables and monster subs. I put this down to Anthems ARC,which in my room is phenomenal.
You really should have a demo of ARC. This is why I use the MRX as a processor,bolted on to a big power amp and have never been happier compaired with any system I have owned over the last 15 years of AV madness.
Comparing old av with new uncompressed formats is unfair really price irrelevant - I also think Room eq has its place but not in stereo playback above the bass region. If it did all the top brands would have their own systems and there would be no need for room treatments.
Room EQ is secondary to room treatment - you are not going to hear the kit properly as no room eq can remove first reflections all it does is boost and dip the freq response to try and flatten it. If you google first reflections you can read how they hinder the sound and stop you hearing properly the kit you have.
I think it is more than possible to have room treatments in an average living room, I do and so does my cousin. You do need an undertsanding wife but she must be understanding to let you buy all this in the first place.
You can get panels made now that look like canvas art - and you can choose any art you want - so the 2 kids on the wall - you and the mrs are both happy !! For the price of 2 apex you can get a couple of panels and that will bring a bigger sound improvement to what you currently have.
I am not talking about HD codecs just regular PCM and Vanilla 5.1. I will dwf give room treatment some consideration thanks.
Anthem MRX 510(used as processor),Anthem Statement A5 power amp,MK MP150MKII's LCR,MK S150T surrounds,Paradigm Signature Sub1,Perfect Bass Kit,Sonos ZP90 ,Qnap NAS,Oppo BDP 103 Multi region,Isol-8 Cleanline2 mains conditioner,SKY+HD,Audioquest Diamondback interconnects. ATV3,iPad4,Panasonic TXP50GT60
Get yourself invited to the next WHF Big Question when they do it.
Hear a system in a treated room - HiFi never sound the same to you again
Ha ha been there and done it at WHF towers. I have listened to music and movies in many a treated room and don't disagree with you. Seriously get a demo of the latest room EQ's from ARC, XT32 pro, Trinnov and Dirac.
I was so sold on the benefits of room treatment after being at WHF, that was a new listening experience for me and changed my whole perception on good hifi / sound - great day as well. I looked into it and went on and did it. I would like to do it again and slightly differently - another time, I have a young baby same as you.
Prior to that I would have said EQ all day long - I was completely sold on the benefits of it, I would still happily demo all systems and methods, that would be great to be able to do that but I dont have the dealers near me or the time. And the systems that you mentioned take a skilled person and time to properly setup and get the best from. I would expect them to be good and clean for films - but sound processed for music that is always the trade off by my past experiences and from others experiences I have read
I have also just spent a small fortune (to me) on Meridian kit and Graham Slee cables and I am happy for the first time since hearing that system @ WHF - I would like to go back and hear it again to see if it would still have the same Wow impact now I have this system / the room treatment I do.
I am attending a Meridian evening at the end of Jan and I will get to listen to their Anniversary System that might change things back again to me being unhappy with mine at home - I hope not ..... hehe
I've had a few demos of Meridian kit back in the day and loved it,but far too rich for me....shame. I probably shouldn't even tell you that i don't even listen in stereo just Multi channel. Always have,no matter the system/room or how exotic it is. Hence I have the Apex monitors as they really excel in this area regardless of their price even though they are being driven by £3.5k's worth of power amp. Overkill? Nah fun. Sub sat systems are my preference as I like the detail provided by sat speakers backed up by deep tight bass provided by good subs that have been EQ'd and calibrated properly.
The EQ's I mentioned are very good with music.
You will always chase the next step up, it's an addiction
Whats your seating position sub frequency response look like? Do you have it saved as a jpeg or simialr?
How does ARC setup your sub (after its internal systems has already done an EQ)?
Does it set it to a flat curve or a house curve?
My sub is set to a flat curve.
From my seating position it is flat down to below 20hz with a very slight dip at 22hz due to its location in an alcove under a shelf!!!
i have the EQ graph saved on my old laptop which I will try to dig out this week. ARC is run on a Windows programme then uploaded to the the Anthem.
As I have a Paradigm sub who also make Anthem I first EQ the sub with Paradigms Perfect Bass Kit followed by ARC. The two compliment one another. The PBK has double the number crunching power of ARC ie equivalent to the D2v.
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