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JohnHolmes's picture
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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Are they going to sound much better for music playback compared to his old designs?

My 750s aren't that great at stereo tbh.

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Have you had them yet Dave?

Your website states that they deliver stunning sound quality on music as well as movies.  Is this true?

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

JohnHolmes wrote:
Are they going to sound much better for music playback compared to his old designs?

My 750s aren't that great at stereo tbh.

With the older Miller & Kreisels, the better sounding models for music were the ones using the 5.25" mid/bass drivers like the 650, 750, 850, and 150. Even so, music quality wasn't great, in my opinion. I think with the 750's they just lacked a bit of refinement. The 150's were more refined as they used three HF units instead of one, which meant that each unit didn't have to work so hard. The new Quattros use four, so things are looking good so far! The 750's weren't the best built speaker either (I used to own some), and while I loved the sound of them, it has to be said that their build quality drew a bit of attention to themselves sonically. The new KK's over the old M&K's is like comparing KEF Q series to the R series - the difference in build quality is leagues apart.

When I sold my last set of S150's, I replaced them with KEF Q300's. I didn't really expect the Q300's to better them, but it was the start of an exercise to find a worthy replacement for the 150's (Miller & Kreisel had closed its doors at this point and ceased trading). Whilst they were very good for the money, they fell short in many areas, but they were streets ahead when it came to music. The Q300's just made them sound musically flat, sounding fully three dimensional in comaprison, which meant these £2k per pair speakers were being outdone by a pair of £500 hi-fi speakers for music. 

Will the new ones improve on the old ones for music? I'm sure they will, firstly seeing as it has been many years since Ken's original designs were developed, and secondly because it was the main area that was open to the greatest improvement, and with Ken being first and foremost a two channel enthusiast who records his own music, I'm sure he will have improved this aspect this time round. How good they will be we will find out next week.

What I find exciting is the fact that Ken has a potential S150 beater here in a 750 sized/shaped package. Many used to want S150 performance but refused to buy the squat box the S150 drivers inhabited purely on looks, but now that they can get that (and possibly more) in something more slimline and conventional looking, and certainly more accommodating - I think Ken might have a rather hot product on his hands here. And all for less than the S150 too...

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

JohnHolmes wrote:
Have you had them yet Dave?

Your website states that they deliver stunning sound quality on music as well as movies.  Is this true?

It would be great if we could write our own profiles, but in reality, with well over 4,000 products on the website and growing, which naturally produces a constant stream of discontinued and new products, it would be physically impossible to maintain. As it stands, we usually have at least one person working on web profiles for products, with help from one or two others every now and again. Even then, we have to resort to copying and pasting from the manufacturer's web page for the product in question, and unfortunately there will be some of the usually sales talk that you will see on their pages. I'm assuming we have taken those profiles from L Sound's web pages (I'm not sure as it isn't my department).

Exactly how good they are for movies and music we will find out towards the end of next week. I will have a set at home for assessment purposes (as will my colleague, both of us are very used to the old M&K presentation), and rest assured I'll be reporting what I find, as there are many interested people out there wanting to know (as well as myself!). Plus, with this new range being designed by the guy who produced the best home theatre loudspeakers on the market (his designs are used in studios all over the world) under the M&K banner, there's a lot of excitement and anticipation, especially after the reception his new subs have been getting recently.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Thanks for the replies David, I look forward to your thoughts. Smile

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Yes the old M&K S150's were not the best with music. However the MK S150MKII's are a different kettle of fish. They sound stunning with music. 

They employ new "pro tweeters" which have made all the difference. Build quality is superior too. 

The new KK's will be superb in every respect I suspect,and I will admit in a more aesthetically room and wife friendly cabinet. 

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

How much are the MKIIs Ric?

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Not as cheap as the KK's at £1095 each. It will be interesting to see how they compare from a £ point of view too. 

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Any news David? Have Ken's babies arrived?

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

JohnHolmes wrote:

Any news David? Have Ken's babies arrived?

Should be any day now John (I know your name is probably not John Holmes, but I don't use forum member's real names on forums unless they do).

Smile

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

I'm sure one or two might be interested in this - a quote from somewhere else by some lucky so and so who got to visit Ken's California showroom...jealous? Me? Naah....

Quote:
I was lucky enough and privileged to visit KKSOUND and their sound demo room while on vacation in LA. Ken was very busy on the day meeting deadlines on new speaker designs, although he kindly arranged my visit to meet Chris Sahakians who has worked with Ken since the old M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound days. Chris was a great host and comes from a mixing background.

I arrived at noon and was there for a couple of hours but as always when you're having fun, time went too fast!! Chris explained what the demo room had set up, which at the time was the new Q85 speakers for L/R duties with twin DXD2012 subs. Surround speakers were original M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound tripole column surrounds.

The room serves as a demo room, testing lab and evaluation facility. There was no center speaker unfortunately as Dolby labs wanted some speakers for their Dolby Theater on Hollywood Blvd, which is where the upcoming Oscars are held and broadcasted from, so they turned to Ken and Chris for a system. Chris had to let the centre speaker go to fulfill the order from Dolby (damn you Dolby!) Joking aside, I was humbled that I'm in the presence of the guys that Dolby turn to when they need a speaker system. You just can't buy that kind of endorsement!

I also have to mention the room. The room did not have a lot of fancy room treatments, just some basic treatment at the front and rear as it was made from drywall on all sides and did not have many furnishings like real world rooms. Ken has always designed his speakers to sound good in most rooms and that's probably why THX approached him to help with the Home THX program. Chris mentioned that for testing, if the speakers Ken makes sound good in this room, they will sound even better in real world rooms of Home Theater enthusiasts. There was no electronic room eq applied via the amps or processor.

For my visit, the in house system was set up with a phantom centre for movie watching. Not ideal in a purist sense (and Chris agreed), but when I heard the system as a whole, I was not missing the centre speaker as the system was set up SO well.

The room also had a DXD12012 QUATTRO DUO stack (4 subs at either end of the screen) and also a DXD808 QUATTRO stack (which is comprised of 4subs). However, I was happy to hear the DXD 12012 DUO subs with the new Quattro Series Q85 speakers as there would be no way I would get away with 4 subs at each end of my room. Chris was hoping that he would have the Quattro Series Q125's as well for demo, but they weren’t available at the time. Saying that, most of the shipment is spoken for with international distributors. And then Dolby also has some…....

Still, I was more than happy to hear what the Q85's could do with the DXD-12012 DUO stacked subs.

We started with 2 channel and Pink Floyd. I was most impressed with how well the subs were integrated with the Q85 speakers. The sound stage created was HUGE and I listened from various places on the sofa and it just sounded great. Individual instruments came through very clearly. I was very surprised at the soundstage the Q85 speakers created with the DXD-12012 DUO subwoofers. Detail was there in spades and the extra tweeter really helped bring out the smallest sounds in the mix. Take it from me folks - these speakers are gooood!

Once I had my fill, we moved on to movie watching and the first disc that went in was Pearl Harbor. It seemed appropriate as it was mixed on M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound speakers and won an oscar for best sound

I was really interested to hear this as the attack on the docked ships is one of my reference clips. Given that there was no centre speaker, I was even more interested to hear this clip as it is a reference for me. I sat slap bang in the centre line of the speakers. Because the L/R speakers were so well in phase, I did not (surprisingly for me) miss the centre channel - at all. Dialogue came from were it should have. Obviously, had I been at the far end of the couch, it would have sounded very different.

So Pearl Harbor was given a thorough work out and those familiar with M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound speakers will know just how impactful these speakers are with this movie.

Let me say, Ken has lost none of his magic in speaker design and I was amazed at just how good the Q85's were for movies.

Coming from an S150 background, it takes a lot to impress me when it comes to dynamics and slam and I was missing none of that with the Q85's. If anything, the extra tweeter made the HF slightly better than my S150 speaker in my opinion. The DXD-12012 subs also helped do their part.

I then moved on to MI4 and the clip with Tom doing his bit for vertigo sufferers and then the sand storm/car chase. I used the clip of Tom running down the side of the tower and then his subsequent head butt into the top of the open window frame to test the speakers/subs ability to be impactful and quick in transients.

Again, my jaw was on the floor when I heard this clip on the Q85's. The performance came very close to S150 levels and if anything, better than what I heard at the cinema and I saw the movies 3 times in the cinema! I distinctly remember this scene for its’ sound. I had to remind myself that this was without a center speaker!

Chris advised me that it would have been even better with a center and yes it would have been. But still, I was not missing the center speaker as I was in the sweet spot. The Q85's did nothing wrong- honestly, I could not fault them.

We then moved onto the sandstorm scene were the sand comes through a building opening, behind Tom Cruise while he is running towards the camera. Music and effects are in abundance with this clip. This clip had my trousers flapping with the bass of the 2 subs.

Those DXD-12012 DUO stack subs really do create the sense of impending doom and danger to the hero and added great tension to the scene. More so than my single MX350 sub. Faster, tighter and more agile is how I would describe the new subs.

When Tom gets hit by the car, I was wincing and in reality, he really should have had some broken bones . The whole sandstorm sound field came alive with the system and the tripole column surrounds did not miss a trick. When Tom crashes the BMW, the resulting impact, clarity and smooth top end was jaw dropping . I just sat there with a huge huge smile on my face .

Incidentally I watched watched Top Gun the previous night in IMAX 3D (it sounded fantastic by the way) and these new KK speakers reminded me of the sound character I heard in that top flight (no pun intended) IMAX theater. M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound owners will know just how cinematic their speakers are, the Kreisel Sound Quattro Series Q85's continue that tradition……… and then some.

The drivers and tweeters used in the new Quattro Series speakers are advanced features and brand new designs than Ken’s previous M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound speakers from what I was told and the new drivers certainly bring the performance gap closer to the S150 speaker in my view. The Q125 speaker with the extra mid bass driver will in my view (based on what I heard with the Q85) bring the performance level of the Quatro Series 125 very very close to my original S150 speaker. However, the Q85 can certainly hold its' own.

The Quattro Series speakers are timbre matched to the original M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound S150, so can be easily added to existing M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound systems with ease ie Front Height/Wides etc.

The other great thing to see was that the Quattro Series speakers have multiple mounting options on the rear of the cabinets – that will accept existing M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound brackets, Omnimount etc

The other new thing for me that raised an eyebrow was the ability to Bi amp the Quattro Series speakers – bi-amping capability ! A lot of people (myself included) would have liked a bi-amping option on the S150's and it seems that Ken has listened to the fans. Chris told me that bi-amping will add another level of performance should a user wish to do that. Chris also advised me that Q125 speaker will have more output than the standard S150 when bi-amped.

Something that I specifically asked Chris was about quality control under the KK banner. Quality Control was something that (for me) M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound was world recognised for.

It was fantastic to hear is that EVERY SINGLE KK SPEAKER made is tested, re tested and listen to prior to shipment and all the DXD subwoofers have to pass several quality control tests that are conducted in Southern California before they get shipped. Ken has his own team in the far east overseeing the QC that M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound was renowned for and I was most pleased to hear that this is still the case. So the legendary M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound quality control is still alive and well under the KK banner.

There will also be some US made speakers coming in the next 12 months and Ken is VERY busy with new designs on active Pro studio monitors and even more fantastic sub designs! The future is looking good for Home Theater fans.

Last but not least, the Quattro Series speakers have Ken’s Signature Sound .

I have to say, that the guys at KK are really really appreciative of the support that they receive all over the world- especially from the UK and Chris wanted me to thank the loyal fans of M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound over the years as well as the new KK fans and supporters. If anyone has not signed up for the newsletter, they should do so at there are some fantastic announcements coming in the next few months from Ken.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

Careful David: remember House Rule No.12: "Trade members, dealers, manufacturers and their PRs must not use the forums to blatantly 'promote' products they sell or distribute."

Editor-in-Chief of What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision and whathifi.com

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

That's just a review by a normal member of the public after visiting Ken's showroom. He didn't buy anything, he's not promoting anything. I thought it would be of interest to those who are interested in his products. If you feel that is too much, feel free to remove it. It is available for all to read on another forum.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

KK has announced two ranges coming this year I believe. What is the second range?

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RE: Ken Kreisel Quattro Series

That'll be the duo range I believe which is a step down from the quattro. 

David: yes I read that very lucky dudes report over at mad house.  Sounds like we are all in for a treat with his new designs. Smile

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